Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA

[power.saver]

Soon to be available in CA, here is a link to the program.

Tesla Virtual Power Plant With PG&E | Tesla Support

Participate in the Emergency Load Reduction Program (ELRP) pilot offered by Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) and support the grid while also earning compensation and maintaining your energy security.

www.tesla.com

Let's see what this has to offer and how those that opt-in are impacted and compensated.

 

[bmah]

 

[SaveOurPlanet]

I suspect this may be the PG&E Distributed Energy Resources Partnership pilot, some of us can sign up in September. Not sure what’s the compensation beyond NEM credits. Not sure if Tesla can go on its own as a micro-grid without CPUC approval.

 

[VickiSoCal]

If I expect to be a net producer at year end and my batter y is usually charged up by noonish if only I use it overnight, what is the advantage to me to store and then sell back just 86% of the power I generated from 4-9 pm when I can sell back 100% directly from noon to 4 pm?

 

[wwhitney]

what is the advantage to me to store and then sell back just 86% of the power I generated from 4-9 pm when I can sell back 100% directly from noon to 4 pm?

If the NEM rate you get is more from 4-9 p.m. than from 12-4 pm, by a factor of at least 1/86% = 116%.

Plus you'd being doing a small service for the grid, possibly reducing fossil fuel usage, etc.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[VickiSoCal]

I thought if, at the end of year, you were a net producer, you just get paid a very low, flat rate. (SCE)

 

[wwhitney]

I thought if, at the end of year, you were a net producer, you just get paid a very low, flat rate. (SCE)

Yes, sorry I read right over that part of your post. So if you are a net producer for the year, and your energy charges for the year are 0 (or NBCs only), no economic benefit to you, from what I've heard so far. Unless there is a detail we are missing, the program is badly designed (economically) for customers like that.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[miimura]

I'm eager to see what the actual terms are of the Tesla CA VPP. I want at least $0.50/kWh in demand response payment on top of NEM credits to join this.

 

[jjrandorin]

This (or any program like it) is a hard pass for me, unless they pay enough that I would be able to buy new powerwalls in 3 years or so.

 

[Zabe]

It will be interesting to see how this is deployed. If the virtual power plant gets access to real-time pricing from CAISO someone (Tesla) could make some serious money charging the virtual power plant when real-time prices are low and discharging when prices are high. Now how that filters down to all of the end users who knows. In reality CAISO is running a nodal market where prices are set at something like 3000 different busses across the system, how that would work with batteries in different geographical areas at different prices, again who knows. I think it would reek some havoc on those of you who are trying to lower your true up costs.

 

[jjrandorin]

It will be interesting to see how this is deployed. If the virtual power plant gets access to real-time pricing from CAISO someone (Tesla) could make some serious money charging the virtual power plant when real-time prices are low and discharging when prices are high. Now how that filters down to all of the end users who knows. In reality CAISO is running a nodal market where prices are set at something like 3000 different busses across the system, how that would work with batteries in different geographical areas at different prices, again who knows. I think it would reek some havoc on those of you who are trying to lower your true up costs.

Most people wont be charging from the grid, like you are. Most will be charging from their solar. I have no idea how they will handle something like this, since people will in general want to be covering their OWN usage during peak time, which is likely also when they will want to "provide help to the grid".

The number of people who have powerwalls without solar in CA is likely a fairly small installed base. I realize your setup is that way, but I feel like its a fairly small number. Much more likely is solar + powerwalls.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Absolutely not. Unless I’m getting 20 times the going rate per kilowatt hour, it’s a no go for me. SCE can go F them selves. I had to get solar and power walls because rates are so crazy high. No way I’m going to give them my generated power for what probably will be for pennies

 

[Zabe]

I agree. The install base for my setup will be limited by SGIP funding and the fact that Tesla does not offer powerwall only installations anymore.

 

[Zabe]

Thinking about it a little more it does not make sense with my setup and rate plan. I already rate arbitrage on EV2A rates. I basically get all my electricity needs met at the off-peak rate around .18c/kwh and I use the powerwalls to power through the .39/.50c/kwh part-peak/peak pricing every day 3pm-12pm. And that is in the summer time, winter arbitrage is .37c vs .18c.

Unless somehow the virtual power plant can get me charged up at an even lower rate....

 

[arnolddeleon]

I believe it is theoretically possible to get paid for just being on standby, e.g. "spinning reserve". I expect that's where most of the value could come from.

 

[Zabe]

I believe it is theoretically possible to get paid for just being on standby, e.g. "spinning reserve". I expect that's where most of the value could come from.

Spinning reserves get a capacity payment for being on standby. Spinning reserves also need to be able to produce the energy that has been reserved on demand and would get an energy payment for that service.

 

[Zabe]

Reading the link I think all you get out of the deal is a warm fuzzy feeling, NEM credits, and updated firmware.

Tesla probably getting BILLIONS!

 

[cali8484]

It seems the general consumer sentiment towards virtual power plants have turned more negative. I wonder how much the power outages and energy insecurity feeling have contributed.

 

[jhn_]

Absolutely not. Unless I’m getting 20 times the going rate per kilowatt hour, it’s a no go for me. SCE can go F them selves. I had to get solar and power walls because rates are so crazy high. No way I’m going to give them my generated power for what probably will be for pennies

For the Tesla VPP in New England with National Grid as our utility we are paid about $1/kwh. But they don’t count it that way, instead they pay us per sustained output. If you can sustain 5kw output for the duration of a 2-3hour “event”, they pay is $40 in the winter and $180 in the summer per kw. So max payout is (5kw x $180) + (5kw x $40) = $900 per year per Powerwall.

From the participants in the program longer than me, I have heard from they are all getting the max payouts.

There are a max 5 events in the winter and 60 in the summer for our utility and state. Each utility is different, for example Eversource in our same state pays out a bit better.

 

[BGbreeder]

For the Tesla VPP in New England with National Grid as our utility we are paid about $1/kwh. But they don’t count it that way, instead they pay us per sustained output. If you can sustain 5kw output for the duration of a 2-3hour “event”, they pay is $40 in the winter and $180 in the summer per kw. So max payout is (5kw x $180) + (5kw x $40) = $900 per year per Powerwall.

From the participants in the program longer than me, I have heard from they are all getting the max payouts.

There are a max 5 events in the winter and 60 in the summer for our utility and state. Each utility is different, for example Eversource in our same state pays out a bit better.

Thanks, that is helpful, though I think the max total is $1,100, if NG draws summer and winter. Wouldn't the worst case power cost would be $1/kWh, assuming that they used a full sixty events in the summer, as it might be closer to $60/kWh if NG did it only once? Or am I missing something?

All the best,

BG