Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA

[MJ_CA_2019]

6 MW that is absolutely pathetic. I run a relatively small system and losing a 6/MW generator is basically not noticable except for the actual breaker operation.

What would earn your admiration?

6 MW would be the minimum if every home (at the time) was dispatched for only 5 kW.
I have 3 PW and many others here also have multiples. App now says 1,711 Fleet Homes.

Taking average of 12.5 kW as potential output for each home gives > 21 MW generator.

 

[bemyax]

An additional benefit is that the VPP is distributed. That is, the energy released is near the point of use. Not traveling through miles of distribution lines.

What would earn your admiration?

6 MW would be the minimum if every home (at the time) was dispatched for only 5 kW.
I have 3 PW and many others here also have multiples. App now says 1,711 Fleet Homes.

Taking average of 12.5 kW as potential output for each home gives > 21 MW generator.

 

[Vines]

i received "you are not eligible to enroll at this time " in tesla app .. i called the number tesla listed 800 743 5000 for PGE ..
1st pge said my system was not listed with them and perhaps it was just installed = i stated the solar was installed in 2017 ... 2nd they stated the 2 PW were not listed = i stated they were installed 7/2020 ... they took down the info and said they would get back ..
week later received a email stating

Thank you for your application to enroll in Tesla's Virtual Power Plant.

Unfortunately, you are currently not eligible to enroll in Tesla's Virtual Power Plant. Our records show your Rule 21 Interconnection Agreement does not include your storage system and therefore does not meet the requirements of the program.

Please contact your storage system contractor and/or installer for more information about what equipment is covered in your Rule 21 Interconnection Agreement.

Sounds like your installer didnt properly fill out the new NEM agreement for the Powerwall installation. They need to complete that.

If you have a signed interconnection agreement that includes your batteries, then send that to PGE and they can fix their records.

 

[donatello]

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear of your issues. Welcome to the wonderful world of bureaucracy that surrounds interconnection agreements. Do you have copies of the paperwork that support your installations? It might help to get copies from PG&E of what they have first, just in case someone on their end misread your paperwork. If PG&E is, gasp, right, then unfortunately, it would be the case that you need to go back to your installer and file amended paperwork.

Please keep us posted.

All the best,

BG

Tesla installed the PW ... I just looked up the install in my Tesla account and it looks like they did not register them with PG&E ... spoke to Tesla energy and they are sending it up to next level ( what ever that means) ....

 

[Redhill_qik]

Tesla installed the PW ... I just looked up the install in my Tesla account and it looks like they did not register them with PG&E ... spoke to Tesla energy and they are sending it up to next level ( what ever that means) ....

Have you been getting the black bill? Powerwalls put you on the NEMPS tariff and that generates the 10+ black bills.

 

[BGbreeder]

Tesla installed the PW ... I just looked up the install in my Tesla account and it looks like they did not register them with PG&E ... spoke to Tesla energy and they are sending it up to next level ( what ever that means) ....

That sounds like a progress. I would call back every couple of days to make sure that they actually move the paperwork along.

All the best,

BG

 

[Redhill_qik]

What would earn your admiration?

6 MW would be the minimum if every home (at the time) was dispatched for only 5 kW.
I have 3 PW and many others here also have multiples. App now says 1,711 Fleet Homes.

Taking average of 12.5 kW as potential output for each home gives > 21 MW generator.

This article says that 25,000 customers were asked to participate and 3,000 have already signed up. We know from the app that 1,711 are already approved.

25,000 PG&E & Tesla Customers Invited To Form World’s Largest Distributed Battery To Support Electric Grid Reliability - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! OAKLAND, California — Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) and Tesla Inc. have launched a new pilot program that creates a virtual power plant, to help support electric grid reliability and save customers...

cleantechnica.com

 

[jhn_]

If most get between 1-3 Powerwalls, call the average install 20.5kwh of storage. Multiple that by the 25,000 asked and you get a very ambitious, but very nice 500mwh ESS virtual peaker plant.

 

[wwu123]

An additional benefit is that the VPP is distributed. That is, the energy released is near the point of use. Not traveling through miles of distribution lines.

The avoidance of transmission/distribution costs is one thing, but at the time that VPP and other DRP's are meant to be activated, IMO it's really the generation costs that are the big benefit. It's the late afternoon/evening times when the call for additional incremental generation causes spot prices to shoot through the roof, like 10X or I think even 100X or more for a few hours. At these times the value of the generation dwarfs the distribution benefit (both are good BTW), and that's why DRP's are able to pay $1/kwh (5-10X any normal retail generation rate) or more for load reduction or export during these times.

If @Zabe is the one that has frequently argued that exported solar during the mid-day is worthless or even negative value because wholesale prices then are so low, then conversely it should hold that VPP exports are hugely valuable at the times of peak demand that they are called for. I presume at those times, that Zabe's power plant, as well as many others, have nothing left to turn on that's relatively clean and efficient (and that's why the generation spot prices shoot through the roof). And that's why I feel the size of the VPP is really irrelevant, it's the value of each kwh during the times VPP is needed.

And if the VPP/DRP's avoid turning on dirty peaker plants for spot generation, there's the side benefit of cleaner power as well, discharging the solar energy stored in Powerwalls, and refilling them later in the evening with relatively clean baseload power at night.

 

[jboy210]

What would earn your admiration?

6 MW would be the minimum if every home (at the time) was dispatched for only 5 kW.
I have 3 PW and many others here also have multiples. App now says 1,711 Fleet Homes.

Taking average of 12.5 kW as potential output for each home gives > 21 MW generator.

Mine says 1,710 homes. Which one of you dropped out!

 

[aesculus]

And if the VPP/DRP's avoid turning on dirty peaker plants for spot generation, there's the side benefit of cleaner power as well, discharging the solar energy stored in Powerwalls, and refilling them later in the evening with relatively clean baseload power at night.

When they kick me off of EVA in a few more years I am hoping by that time they will have a rate plan that emphasizes this and rewards me for delaying my solar energy grid returns, not just when I create the energy. Sure I can do that today with Export Everything, but my rate plan with NEM NBCs does not support this financially for me.

 

[wwu123]

When they kick me off of EVA in a few more years I am hoping by that time they will have a rate plan that emphasizes this and rewards me for delaying my solar energy grid returns, not just when I create the energy. Sure I can do that today with Export Everything, but my rate plan with NEM NBCs does not support this financially for me.

There's no TOU rate plan that I could conceive of that would support this natively, because the days and times when spot prices are high are going to vary dynamically by weather and region. But that's why Demand Response Programs are separate and co-exist with TOU or non-TOU rate plans. Seems like the Tesla VPP is the DRP you want in conjunction with whatever rate plan you are on, if you want it automated for $2/kwh each event.

On the other hand, if you're trying to arbitrage TOU rates every day, than I understand you use Export Everything, you get the differential between peak and off-peak (~$0.10-0.30/kwh) on your exports, but grid spot prices are irrelevant to this.

You can do both these things, but there is the potential risk that the latter may negate the former, depending on how they exactly they do the baseline calculations for each event.

 

[aesculus]

I currently use Cost Savings mode and that works well for time arbitrage my rates (~60 cents per kWh). But that plan is going away.

I did try Export Everything, and since I am near the NBC/MDC ratio I was not going to do more than give away free energy.

So when I am forced off of my current plan and have to pick something else, I will probably go with Export Everything and hopefully Tesla's algorithms will be smart enough to maximize my return. They do pretty well on my current plan.

BTW since the VPP program is independent and does not effect my regular energy return metrics, I am in the process of signing up for that too.

But my whole comment was less about emergency grid support and really supporting ESS with decent rate plans that support energy returns after solar gives up for the day. Export Everything does this in theory, but its at its infancy and I am afraid the Grid Ops will find a way to clip its wings, when the CAPUC should be emphasizing it as a replacement for peaker plants.

 

[Zabe]

What would earn your admiration?

6 MW would be the minimum if every home (at the time) was dispatched for only 5 kW.
I have 3 PW and many others here also have multiples. App now says 1,711 Fleet Homes.

Taking average of 12.5 kW as potential output for each home gives > 21 MW generator.

I thought they would have higher adoption. 100 MW would be a good start. I thought they would get more like 250 MW. At $2000/MW this will likely be called upon just prior to shedding load. I certainly hope the program doesn't drain peoples powerwalls for 2 hours and allow the local utility to drop your circuit later. That would be pretty disappointing and cause people to abandon the program.

 

[bmah]

I thought they would have higher adoption. 100 MW would be a good start. I thought they would get more like 250 MW. At $2000/MW this will likely be called upon just prior to shedding load. I certainly hope the program doesn't drain peoples powerwalls for 2 hours and allow the local utility to drop your circuit later. That would be pretty disappointing and cause people to abandon the program.

That’s why you keep a non zero reserve setting.

Bruce.

 

[Zabe]

If most get between 1-3 Powerwalls, call the average install 20.5kwh of storage. Multiple that by the 25,000 asked and you get a very ambitious, but very nice 500mwh ESS virtual peaker plant

That’s why you keep a non zero reserve setting.

Bruce.

True, but this also limits capacity of those participating and might be part of the reason the total MW capacity is so low.

 

[acastal]

Does anyone know if the Site Export Limit will affect VPP like it does for "export all"?

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

Does anyone know if the Site Export Limit will affect VPP like it does for "export all"?

What is "Site Export Limit"? Something you agreed to with your PoCo? Or something in your Tesla settings?

 

[acastal]

If you log into the web portal of the Tesla gateway and click summary it's the last line. I don't know if it's in the app anywhere. I have 2xPW and my site export limit is set to 8kW. So if I have export all enabled and it's peak pricing the gateway will send all solar to the grid and make up the rest up to 8kW, while still providing for the home load as well. As the sun gets lower the amount of draw from he PWs goes up. I don't know where/who set the limit originally and it does not appear to be user configurable.

 

[cwied]

My assumption is that the export limit will affect the discharge during VPP events based on the circumstantial evidence that mine was updated around the same time I was approved for the VPP.