[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

[Smiddy]

I’ve been reading crap like this on this forum for years. Which aspects of your car do you think are “clearly years” ahead f the competition?

I loved my Model 3 when I had it, I'm not sure I would say they are 'years ahead' but like most car makers there are somethings they do very well and other things that need work. I had a Mercedes EQC following the accident I had in Jan this year and I'll share some thoughts about that too.

Some things I liked -

• Mobile app seems far superior than any other auto makers I have seen so far.
• Speed and efficacy is great
• Charging network - This, I would say is years ahead of anyone. The fact you just rock up and plug in is great and it 'just works'
• Being able to schedule charging and cliamte.
• The in car entertainment was excellent (although i would like Apple Car Play I dont miss it that much)
• Being able to use my phone as the key
• Easy entry and driver profiles

Things I didnt like so much -

• Auto wipers
• Auto headlights
• Climate control wasnt always great, some days you seem to have to keep adjusting it
• Some of the routes it takes when using navigation in places like Devon
• Rear camera needs a washer jet

The Mercedes EQC was a more expensive car but the interior felt cheap, the seats were comfortable but the leather felt very fake. You could get Apple car play from the software store built in to the cars computer for £300 which I thought was crap for £70k car. The matrix LED headlights were amazing though.

• The range on the EQC was 200 miles if driven perfectly, charging was 150kW max (I only ever managed to get 80kW).
• Didnt have a feature to schedule charging time so it was always charging during peak rates.
• The driver settings like driving mode and regen strength reset every time you start the car.
• running boards just got in the way and dirt up the back of your legs
• No frunk at all
• It was fairly quick and a quiet, smooth ride (only had rear air suspension on the one I had)

If other car makers had a charging network like Tesla's I would look at other brands, while public charging is getting better its still got a long way to go. I think the gov. should put in its own charging network rather than spending millions on stupid air monitoring crap like they have in Wales and 50mph speed limits to lower pollution. Put in or help fund installing decent public charging which would probably encourage more people to go electric.

 

[UrbanSplash]

I see there is a model 3 test car that possibly has cameras in the headlight housing. This I’m fine with. Sux for those with no ultrasonics that also won’t get headlight cameras. If it’s true of course.

 

[RafP]

Tried to cancel our MYP at 14 days but it was a company purchase distance selling regs don’t apply, which Tesla knew and let me know and said tough.

I pointed out we had sought legal advice and had expected such a response but that U.K. law does still apply to Tesla also. Which they accepted.

It has some fairly minor faults (marked trim, seats etc) but as per this thread major one in that advertised features at point of sale are no longer there. We sought legal advice for completeness and reading the Tesla vision blurb it uses “in the near future” doesn’t have a stated time frame.

Wanted to be clear legally as interested in terms of even if someone had the USS pop up (seems some didn’t some did) what would that actually mean if it never came as a like for like or better feature.

Was advised not more than 2-3 months would be a reasonable maximum time frame for having equivalent features ‘in the near future’.

That on basis average car ownership is 2-3years. Anyone on a 1 year lease would have a case after a month apparently.

We have therefore pre-emptively rejected the car on the basis that advertised features are not working and no estimated date within a reasonable timeframe for replacement set our for like for like or better than features.

Also pointed out the cameras used are not fit for the intended purpose. Got a few videos of dark parking at night and ‘camera blocked or blinded’.

To comply with process we have an appt booked they have 1 chance to correct all issues. If they do we keep it (car is nice), if they don’t and the feature isn’t there and exactly like for like in the near future then they either buy it back off us or we go legal.

Been advised if it came to it and Tesla resist the easiest approach if needed is sell car (getting a few prices to ensure we didn’t take lowest one) and raise court proceedings for any delta in what we get back.

Lack of parking features is unacceptable at this price point. Especially as the cameras aren’t fit for purpose to replace, it’s dark they all randomly stop working due to low light. USS wont stop working in low light and never had a car dirty enough for the not to work.

Stuff like this gets my goat and gets my back up.

Quick yes, rides well yes, overall Tesla experience poor yes …. Over hyped by fan boys(and girls) for sure!

 

[WllXM]

That leaves the efficiency. I suggest you look at the iX3 efficiency stats. I’d say Tesla has an edge, but it’s no longer streets ahead.

And I believe most of this edge is due to aerodynamics. The iX3 is essentially a brick on wheels.

 

[GlynG]

Tried to cancel our MYP at 14 days but it was a company purchase distance selling regs don’t apply, which Tesla knew and let me know and said tough.

I pointed out we had sought legal advice and had expected such a response but that U.K. law does still apply to Tesla also. Which they accepted.

It has some fairly minor faults (marked trim, seats etc) but as per this thread major one in that advertised features at point of sale are no longer there. We sought legal advice for completeness and reading the Tesla vision blurb it uses “in the near future” doesn’t have a stated time frame.

Wanted to be clear legally as interested in terms of even if someone had the USS pop up (seems some didn’t some did) what would that actually mean if it never came as a like for like or better feature.

Was advised not more than 2-3 months would be a reasonable maximum time frame for having equivalent features ‘in the near future’.

That on basis average car ownership is 2-3years. Anyone on a 1 year lease would have a case after a month apparently.

We have therefore pre-emptively rejected the car on the basis that advertised features are not working and no estimated date within a reasonable timeframe for replacement set our for like for like or better than features.

Also pointed out the cameras used are not fit for the intended purpose. Got a few videos of dark parking at night and ‘camera blocked or blinded’.

To comply with process we have an appt booked they have 1 chance to correct all issues. If they do we keep it (car is nice), if they don’t and the feature isn’t there and exactly like for like in the near future then they either buy it back off us or we go legal.

Been advised if it came to it and Tesla resist the easiest approach if needed is sell car (getting a few prices to ensure we didn’t take lowest one) and raise court proceedings for any delta in what we get back.

Lack of parking features is unacceptable at this price point. Especially as the cameras aren’t fit for purpose to replace, it’s dark they all randomly stop working due to low light. USS wont stop working in low light and never had a car dirty enough for the not to work.

Stuff like this gets my goat and gets my back up.

Quick yes, rides well yes, overall Tesla experience poor yes …. Over hyped by fan boys(and girls) for sure!

At last, someone who has a very similar view regarding the legal position of last minute changes after the agreement to purchase - and the formation of the contract. I've said for so long its sharp practice to offer something, form a contract, and just prior to taking delivery you find something has been removed with the promise in the future something will be implemented to replace what was removed - without a date set. Contract law is precise and there has to be a meeting of the minds which both parties sign to agree. "Here is your car, the USS has been removed, do you still want it" Is a breach of contract. Its not for one party to make a change on a take it or leave it basis, if it was agreed then the party impacted by something removed can insist the contract is discharged accordingly - so they can either accept the change or insist the removed item is reinstated.

 

[qsmy]

Tried to cancel our MYP at 14 days but it was a company purchase distance selling regs don’t apply, which Tesla knew and let me know and said tough.

I pointed out we had sought legal advice and had expected such a response but that U.K. law does still apply to Tesla also. Which they accepted.

It has some fairly minor faults (marked trim, seats etc) but as per this thread major one in that advertised features at point of sale are no longer there. We sought legal advice for completeness and reading the Tesla vision blurb it uses “in the near future” doesn’t have a stated time frame.

Wanted to be clear legally as interested in terms of even if someone had the USS pop up (seems some didn’t some did) what would that actually mean if it never came as a like for like or better feature.

Was advised not more than 2-3 months would be a reasonable maximum time frame for having equivalent features ‘in the near future’.

That on basis average car ownership is 2-3years. Anyone on a 1 year lease would have a case after a month apparently.

We have therefore pre-emptively rejected the car on the basis that advertised features are not working and no estimated date within a reasonable timeframe for replacement set our for like for like or better than features.

Also pointed out the cameras used are not fit for the intended purpose. Got a few videos of dark parking at night and ‘camera blocked or blinded’.

To comply with process we have an appt booked they have 1 chance to correct all issues. If they do we keep it (car is nice), if they don’t and the feature isn’t there and exactly like for like in the near future then they either buy it back off us or we go legal.

Been advised if it came to it and Tesla resist the easiest approach if needed is sell car (getting a few prices to ensure we didn’t take lowest one) and raise court proceedings for any delta in what we get back.

Lack of parking features is unacceptable at this price point. Especially as the cameras aren’t fit for purpose to replace, it’s dark they all randomly stop working due to low light. USS wont stop working in low light and never had a car dirty enough for the not to work.

Stuff like this gets my goat and gets my back up.

Quick yes, rides well yes, overall Tesla experience poor yes …. Over hyped by fan boys(and girls) for sure!

Hey - interesting. So did Tesla accept the return within 14 days or do you have an email to state Parking assist will work in 2-3 months and if it does not in this time, you will hand the car back? I'm having issues with my new P and may exercise my 14 days. Is there a specific email for this?

 

[Battpower]

cancel our MYP at 14 days

By the time I had climbed a steep, long mountain (Inc what was then a £4k down payment) to reach an actual car I wanted and Tesla could raise an invoice for, there was no way I was backing out, although there were times I thought about it. I suspect you'd be happy in the end if you kept your car, but I also applaud you checking the rules and holding Tesla accountable.

U.K. law does still apply to Tesla

In the past I have wondered if they even knew what UK law was! As you found, Tesla still try to ride over it like it doesn't apply to them. Similar approach to UK road layouts and weather!

a 1 year lease would have a case after a month

Interesting too if there is a basis for this. It certainly seems correct that if your effective ownership is for a finite and known time from the outset, purchased features should be available for the vast majority of that period.

dark parking at night and ‘camera blocked or blinded

Pet peeve of mine. On that some owners don't see a problem with rear cam as I'm pretty sure all MCU2 and later cams have same issue.

they have 1 chance to correct all issues.

That's a clear statement, but when you know how Tesla works, it's quite meaningless and for some issues they claim a fix that's hard to verify &/or break the same thing or similar with a subsequent software update. OTA updates are a big hassle in determining what is a fix, if it's permanent, if it came at the expense of altering performance of some other component etc. (Eg removing radar to fix phantom braking but then changing other behaviour of lights, wipers to make it work... only to find it isn't a like for like fix).

buy it back

I suspect there is a buy back option for significant issues outside 14 days but you have to agree value allowing for use. I'm not sure how you decide if buying a Tesla comes under distance selling or not. Seems clear to me it must since you buy a car before even doing it in most (all?) cases. But I bet there is some wriggling that Tesla have up their sleeves to claim it isn't subject to DSR.

all randomly stop working due to low light

If that refers to all cameras I'm not sure it's true or provable. Certainly the main forward camera has been demonstrated to tolerate a huge range of adverse factors before being unable to contribute data to the car. B-pillar cams are totally undependable imo, but I'm not 100% sure what is effected by that and how that changes with software version and car features.

Will be interesting to hear how things work out for you.

 

[cliff harris]

FWIW I was furious about the removal of USS, and was close to cancelling my order, which was a Y performance which I waited a year for. I use the USS a lot on my model S, and live down a narrow lane, and park in a garage with hardly any space at the back...

Had my new model Y for almost 2 weeks now and... its awesome. I really have not missed the USS at all. Having a rear camera AND 2 side cameras is pretty awesome, and so far I have not worried about it one bit. Helps that the Y is shorter than my old S I suppose.

Just one data point, but I think its worth mentioning, because I was in full on fury mode about the USS until I got one without them.

 

[MrBadger]

Had my new model Y for almost 2 weeks now and... its awesome. I really have not missed the USS at all. Having a rear camera AND 2 side cameras is pretty awesome, and so far I have not worried about it one bit. Helps that the Y is shorter than my old S I suppose.

Same conclusion across all weather conditions and times of day?

I don't think that many doubt that a camera based solution (ideally in addition to USS) will work well in many situations (and better in some than USS), but I think the issue that many with Tesla camera experience have is how many situations where the car currently reports camera visibility issues, or you can see (or not) for yourself that visibility is seriously degraded, that the car will behave with the same level, or better (if you believe Tesla), than one would expect from USS. I've one many reversing manoeuvres where there is no visibility, camera or otherwise, and the only thing giving you any degree of comfort that you are not going to reverse into anything significant, are the USS and your sixth sense, and even then, sixth sense wins over USS.

 

[Battpower]

even then, sixth sense wins over USS.

One owner who doesn't care about future of USS then!

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I parked on the road earlier in a small villiage, nothing in front of me. When I got back, a car had parked quite close in front of me. I had to shuffle to get out as the space I was in was tight but thankfully I'd left enough room behind me to be able to go backwards and forwards to work my way out. All I can say is without USS I'd have been getting out the car repeatedly as it took 3 cycles of forwards and backwards as it was, the sensors reporting only a few incles. And in a TV Parking sensor world. unless the cameras had been on the whole time I was parked, I'm not sure how it would be able to know the length of the other car as it wasn't completely visible from the cabin.

These things, like many things, radar and rain sensor included, are hardware you might not miss every day, and might work fine most of the time, but when you end up in a situation where you need it, they're very valuable. I would suggest those without USS are "coping with" rather than "benefiting from" no USS.

 

[MP3Mike]

Contract law is precise and there has to be a meeting of the minds which both parties sign to agree. "Here is your car, the USS has been removed, do you still want it" Is a breach of contract. Its not for one party to make a change on a take it or leave it basis, if it was agreed then the party impacted by something removed can insist the contract is discharged accordingly - so they can either accept the change or insist the removed item is reinstated.

The order agreement, at least in the US, specifically states that features may no longer be available, and the recourse is getting your order fee back while cancelling your order. So they would actually be honoring the contract:

 

[RafP]

Hey - interesting. So did Tesla accept the return within 14 days or do you have an email to state Parking assist will work in 2-3 months and if it does not in this time, you will hand the car back? I'm having issues with my new P and may exercise my 14 days. Is there a specific email for this?

If it’s a private car legally you have 14 days from collecting to cancel the car for any reason. Distance selling regulations apply I know if a few who have used it with Tesla of late (sadly).

It’s actually in Tesla terms and even they are aware of distance selling regs.

Check your contract write a letter to the address listed also email [email protected].

They will deduct 55p per mile and cost of putting any damage right.

If I hadn’t brought through my company would exercise the right of lack of uss and the useless cameras has now started annoy me off and the wife. Let’s face it it’s not being deployed any time soon, clock is ticking!

And I doubt from what I have seen of cameras at night and frost it won’t be like for like. I had front camera blinded earlier… (grabbed a pic)

I can see them dragging heels mind and if honest in a perverse way I’ll look forward to them doing it as will be straight down the legal route. At same time contacting journo friend to let him know about the case (he’s a major tabloid motoring journalist….)

 

[qsmy]

I

If it’s a private car legally you have 14 days from collecting to cancel the car for any reason. Distance selling regulations apply I know if a few who have used it with Tesla of late (sadly).

It’s actually in Tesla terms and even they are aware of distance selling regs.

Check your contract write a letter to the address listed also email [email protected].

They will deduct 55p per mile and cost of putting any damage right.

If I hadn’t brought through my company would exercise the right of lack of uss and the useless cameras has now started annoy me off and the wife. Let’s face it it’s not being deployed any time soon, clock is ticking!

And I doubt from what I have seen of cameras at night and frost it won’t be like for like. I had front camera blinded earlier… (grabbed a pic)

I can see them dragging heels mind and if honest in a perverse way I’ll look forward to them doing it as will be straight down the legal route. At same time contacting journo friend to let him know about the case (he’s a major tabloid motoring journalist….)

Thanks for this. I might get an email to confirm parking sensors will be coming soon. When it does come, if it does not work at least I have something in writing to protect myself to do return. Obviously, if it works no issue. With the recent news of the new Radar, I presume its not going to work without this. Do you think that will work?

Regarding camera's I've had no issues in the dark, it turns into night mode so I can see in pitch black. Or I am seeing things.....

 

[KennethS]

I


Thanks for this. I might get an email to confirm parking sensors will be coming soon. When it does come, if it does not work at least I have something in writing to protect myself to do return. Obviously, if it works no issue. With the recent news of the new Radar, I presume its not going to work without this. Do you think that will work?

Regarding camera's I've had no issues in the dark, it turns into night mode so I can see in pitch black. Or I am seeing things.....

I think people are getting way ahead of themselves with the new radar rumors. Unless there has been confirmation I missed….

 

[GRiLLA]

I


Thanks for this. I might get an email to confirm parking sensors will be coming soon. When it does come, if it does not work at least I have something in writing to protect myself to do return. Obviously, if it works no issue. With the recent news of the new Radar, I presume its not going to work without this. Do you think that will work?

Regarding camera's I've had no issues in the dark, it turns into night mode so I can see in pitch black. Or I am seeing things.....

Radar has never had anything to do with parking sensors, it only points in one direction.

 

[Cnixon]

Tesla just seem a bit stuck with .... They have lost me when my next change comes.

...all made worse because some of the competition now have 18 month waiting list. I would have gone for the Skoda Enyaq Coupe but now I have to fall back to the MY. I know it will be ok but I didn't want ok again.

 

[MashinBenzin]

...all made worse because some of the competition now have 18 month waiting list. I would have gone for the Skoda Enyaq Coupe but now I have to fall back to the MY. I know it will be ok but I didn't want ok again.

Same here pretty much, except the estate/SUV, I think the Enyaq is a lot better than the MY in many ways - just not as quick. (And, of course, no supercharging but I haven’t yet needed an off-home charge in 3 months).

 

[Danzr]

Same here pretty much, except the estate/SUV, I think the Enyaq is a lot better than the MY in many ways - just not as quick. (And, of course, no supercharging but I haven’t yet needed an off-home charge in 3 months).

VW group software still leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Jitm]

Hi All

Just found this on web. Are they adding sensors back?

Filed Documents Show Tesla Is Adding Radar Back to Cars Next Year

Seems like Tesla Vision hasn't worked out quite how the company hoped.

www.gizmodo.com.au