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[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

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I think if the car comes with both 5mp cameras and HW4, it would be start of a new 3 year cycle hardware wise, so a wise step. Just 5mp cameras, that are working as 5mp cameras, but not HW4, more tricky, but possibly yes.

But the problem is, you don't know. Noone has yet to confirm or refute any spec changes other than cars don't have the cut-outs in the bumpers and the cameras do look a bit different, which, IMHO does surprise me a little. I would have thought that someone would have done a tear down. As for knowing how things will perform in a few months, or whenever things get implemented, thats a big unknown.

tl;dr Who knows with present info available.
 
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I thought I might have bought the wrong car.
Missed this thread when it started, so most of my points likely been made, but fwiw:

I took a long time deciding to buy Model S with FSD having had a few previous EVs, and with Covid it didn't get driven as much as expected. Initially I genuinely thought that even very slow progress from where the car started off would make it a good buy during my ownership. Money wise I'm still ok, but the ownership experience has been a letdown.

the only camera that has a chance in winter is the forward facing one

I was thinking same thing. Completely moronic to base any safety system on the view of one camera. The camera suite is so regularly compromised for one reason or another that it can't possibly form the basis of emergency braking etc.

keep the ultrasonic sensors until they have a proven and working alternative

At the very least. Actually, on my MS they only work down to about a foot distance, and often the warning beeps and messages to STOP come seconds after clearing the obstacle..... but that's likely to remain the case with vision based if you look at progress in other VO areas.

honoured the spec that the car was ordered

Absolutely. Even if it's flawed (in which case safety flaws should acknowledged as such and be fixed promptly) it is part of what you purchased. Tesla really behaves as though the cars still belong to them.

they're not so much edge cases as 25% of the time.

Agree. There has been no published rationale explaining why ultrasonic based as used by most of the industry to good effect no longer has a place on my MS that I bought with it installed on.

"camera blinded messages" for months of the year

Tesla must be very well aware of this. Yet they still press on with VO based designs.

I ordered and paid for a car with parking sensors.

Yes. And it's not rocket science to make them work, unless you are Tesla it seems

It'll be a while before these cars hit the street

Surely it's the software rather than new cars. I am under the impression (although it's hard to tell since everything is by hear say) that new software disables my radar. Why won't it disable USS when Tesla decide to do that?

What really gets me is that Tesla don't put in much if any effort to give new (but legacy) models new features (like remote viewing of sentry - even when 3rd parties show it's quite possible to do) yet they downgrade / fail to fix my car as and when they feel like it.

purchased FSD instead to enjoy the journey,

I haven't really enjoyed any journey with FSD.

Cameras with better night vision would be a good start.

Right. My rear view has had messed up contrast / black levels since new. It is an issue effecting all MCU2 MS cars from what I can work out. Any bright light source in an otherwise dark scene and the whole image becomes mainly black / dark grey. Just when you need USS because it's too dark to see and the reversing camera is a pos.


On the question of regulatory approval and development of FSD, there are so many unresolved issues that imo show that Tesla is making minimal overall progress (eg fogging of cabin and b-pillar cameras) that if I were a regulator, I would trust them at all!
 
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Got this message today and my passenger took the picture I was doing 70 in the rain on the M6 I don’t have fsd or eap I might have been on the eap beta that is in engaged by a double press on the right hand stalk or cruise control but I normally as a rule drive on cruise at 70-74 mph just to take the stress out of the drive

It was wet and a fair bit of surface water was kicking up with other traffic. Add this and the side camera blocked (string sunlight), can’t see how relying on vision is ever going to provide reliable results unless the camera tech steps up to military grade night vision.
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I would also note that every time I pull into my garage I see the rear and side cameras because I bring them up, but the recycling bin that sits 2 feet away from the front of my car is pictured by the screen as being in the middle of my hood every time. Not to mention that there is a person standing next to my wife's car 5 feet away, and there is a truck (apparently) parked inside the wall that is 2 feet from the left side of my car.

Not feeling really secure about the close-in protection of the cameras.
 
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So, I did a round trip from Glasgow to Birmingham and back. Down Monday back Tuesday. I’ve done this trip in my M3LR 2021 before prior to Tesla Vision.

Last time the journey was heart on mouth stuff as you drove past lorries. This time no phantom braking save for one minor blip near an exit ramp. That’s the upside.

The downside however was the spurious errors showing camera blocked, autopilot speed reduced. Camera obscured etc either with too much sun or as on the way back in the dark.

Moreover, the auto wipers seemed to take an age to first engage when rain started.

I tried to use the beta eap as much as possible but it’s a pain when you want to change lanes but overall that worked quite well.

600 miles and the last trip leaving from Glasgow at 100% cost £56 this one looks like about £84 but I’ll correct the total in the morning. First stop Trentham on way down then keele on way up. Sadly I also had to stop at Gretna and this time I did note the sat nav correct itself several times by rerouting to a less busy supercharger.

Anyway some random obvs and thoughts pre and post Tesla vision etc.
 
Which includes the user input into many of the decision making, design, development and builds of their products ;)
As @Boza says above - just give us a plain vanilla driver's EV without the crap technology (and hence £15k cheaper) and Tesla could own the market.

As it stands, all other manufacturers feel like they have to overload their cars with similar tech, years before it is ready, in a "me too" rush. They don't seem to have realised that Tesla's AI is by far its worst aspect, whereas its battery, drive train and efficiency - not to mention performance - is years ahead.
 
and efficiency

OT I know, but not worth a new thread either!

I see this efficiency comment quite often. My Model S Raven reports somewhere around 275 whr/mi as a regular typical figure. My Kona EV reports 200 whr/mi under similar conditions. Based on Teslamate's gross figure, the picture is much worse at around 400whr/mi while the Kona's net Vs gross is close to no difference.

Again, very back of fag packet, the Kona will give me a predictable 280miles from around 62kwhr (300 plus in summer) while the 95kwr of the MS struggles to make 300 Miles for similar drive.
 
OT I know, but not worth a new thread either!

I see this efficiency comment quite often. My Model S Raven reports somewhere around 275 whr/mi as a regular typical figure. My Kona EV reports 200 whr/mi under similar conditions. Based on Teslamate's gross figure, the picture is much worse at around 400whr/mi while the Kona's net Vs gross is close to no difference.

Again, very back of fag packet, the Kona will give me a predictable 280miles from around 62kwhr (300 plus in summer) while the 95kwr of the MS struggles to make 300 Miles for similar drive.
This is quite interesting! MS has one of the best drag coefficients; the motors should be very advanced. Why do you think Kona is more efficient? Weight perhaps? Thinner tires?
 
Mod: welcome to move elsewhere.

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No idea what the Kona has that gives it good efficiency. Mine is 2021 UK model and the newer model specs and actual performance isn't quite as good. The original tyres had very poor grip so I fitted Cross Climate 2's which grip great and no evident downsides.

To be worthy of detailed consideration I'd want to do some much better controlled tests, but my rough and ready figures are good enough ball park indicators.

One big difference is that the car uses very little in battery management. The car is evidently well thought through. It monitors cabin humidity and auto purges if it detects high humidity build up. Heated and cooled ventilated seats reduce energy use. Auto lights and wipers just sit on auto all the time... week after week ... and just do what they need to do.

Now I doubt the Kona would do well if I drove it hard, but much of the time I just sit at 65 - 70 or following a line of traffic. The lane assist is a bit crude but the cruise control works great.

The hardest thing to handle with my MS is that I am now loosing track of what features I can reasonably expect to actually work. I no longer have a clear idea of what 'in spec' for my car actually means!