[uk] UltraSonic Sensors removal/TV replacement performance

[Battpower]

stopped freaking out when you change from lane 3 to 2 when there is a lorry in lane 1.

That will be something to look forward to, but not likely an issue originally linked to radar.

I wasn't very clear in my question may be. I wondered what behaviours that have improved are ones that related to radar in any way. The main one imo would be certain varieties of phantom braking. Could you support a claim that phantom braking is no longer an issue? I have seen several posts suggesting that pb is still an issue and maybe more common, albeit under different circumstances.

One reason I'm happy sticking with 20.8 is because I know what to expect. Since new releases often offer no worthwhile new features for ancient 3 + year old legacy dinosaurs, until there is an update that finally puts issues to bed, why would I jeopardise the positive aspects of what I already have?

It feels there is still a lot of noise in all directions saying things are better for some, worse for others.....

I might as well stick with what I'm familiar with.

 

[SalisburySam]

Substitute does not mean exactly the same. Ask any football fan. And I mean football.

Agreed, but usually does not mean less capability just a different way to achieve the same. Vision hasn’t achieved sameness. Love the football reference though, thanks for the chuckle. Sometimes a substitute is actually better than that being substituted. Ask any baseball fan about designated hitters. I would not put SillyVision in the designated hitter category though.

 

[SalisburySam]

To be fair, on 40.4.1 auto pilot performs better than when the radar was enabled.

Really? Then why does v40.4.1 have restrictions that the radar versions do not? Examples: 5mph less speed on autopilot, mandatory wipers, mandatory high beams, no “1” following distance. And then there are the deficiencies you yourself note in post #1100.

AHB is also in an acceptable state.

For you, and for me quite frankly, but that’s true for me on v2022.20.8 as well. Lots of posters here and elsewhere disagree though so not acceptable for all.

And for the record, I thought the initial release of V11 was terrible. However the current version is better than V10 ever was.

Great.

Feels like sticking with 20.X is cutting your nose off to spite your face at this point.

I’m happy to update to whatever, but I’d prefer to do so only after whatever version achieves functional parity to the version I have. For me, that either turns back on the radar (that I paid for and works pretty well in conditions vision doesn’t) or removes the restrictions I mention above. I watch the release notes of each new version and the reactions to it in this and other blogs. So far, I’m not missing anything I really care about, so at last glance my nose remains in place. And my Fall sneezing allergies seem to provide annoying evidence of that.

 

[SalisburySam]

One reason I'm happy sticking with 20.8 is because I know what to expect. Since new releases often offer no worthwhile new features for ancient 3 + year old legacy dinosaurs, until there is an update that finally puts issues to bed, why would I jeopardise the positive aspects of what I already have?

It feels there is still a lot of noise in all directions saying things are better for some, worse for others.....

I might as well stick with what I'm familiar with.

Amen.

 

[Zilla91]

Phantom braking still happens with vision only autopilot but it’s definitely much rarer than it used to be with radar.

However it’s only anecdotal and we don’t know for sure if radar is the real culprit or if they’ve adjusted the parameters on autopilot to make phantom braking happen less often.

 

[qwickshot]

Really? Then why does v40.4.1 have restrictions that the radar versions do not? Examples: 5mph less speed on autopilot, mandatory wipers, mandatory high beams, no “1” following distance. And then there are the deficiencies you yourself note in post #1100.

For you, and for me quite frankly, but that’s true for me on v2022.20.8 as well. Lots of posters here and elsewhere disagree though so not acceptable for all.

Great.

I’m happy to update to whatever, but I’d prefer to do so only after whatever version achieves functional parity to the version I have. For me, that either turns back on the radar (that I paid for and works pretty well in conditions vision doesn’t) or removes the restrictions I mention above. I watch the release notes of each new version and the reactions to it in this and other blogs. So far, I’m not missing anything I really care about, so at last glance my nose remains in place. And my Fall sneezing allergies seem to provide annoying evidence of that.

It’s already functionally the same in my view.

Follow distance of 1 is WAY too close to be considered sensible or safe at almost any speed other than stationary. It’s less than a 2 second gap. If anything the improvement required here should go up to 10-12. For a casual cruise, there isn’t any need to follow as close to the car in front as 7 sets.

5mph off the top speed is irrelevant, the speed limit in the U.K. is 70mph.

This poster sums up the phantom breaking situation:

Phantom braking still happens with vision only autopilot but it’s definitely much rarer than it used to be with radar.

However it’s only anecdotal and we don’t know for sure if radar is the real culprit or if they’ve adjusted the parameters on autopilot to make phantom braking happen less often.

If AHB is acceptable to you on the old software (despite it not dimming fast enough), why is it a problem that it’s on when autopilot is on?

 

[Danzr]

Got confirmation today that my MY has TV and no USS..... She also confirmed that TV is live and includes measurements and lines as parking aids but no audible beeps.

I've not read anyones posts on here mentioning measurements on their recent pick ups?

To clarify the lines they mean are guide lines for the steering angle not object detection shapes and lines like with USS

See this video from yesterday 1:40

 

[Durzel]

It’s already functionally the same in my view.

Follow distance of 1 is WAY too close to be considered sensible or safe at almost any speed other than stationary. It’s less than a 2 second gap. If anything the improvement required here should go up to 10-12. For a casual cruise, there isn’t any need to follow as close to the car in front as 7 sets.

5mph off the top speed is irrelevant, the speed limit in the U.K. is 70mph.

This poster sums up the phantom breaking situation:



If AHB is acceptable to you on the old software (despite it not dimming fast enough), why is it a problem that it’s on when autopilot is on?

I've heard - but not confirmed myself - that follow distance 1 is very useful in London traffic.

 

[Simavon]

Vision isn't functionally the same at all. This morning, it is foggy, and it would not even drive at 30mph in conditions suitable for 60mph. At 60mph, driving manually, I was the slowest vehicle on the M5 apart from HGVs.

I also don't know who at Tesla signed off the algorithm, but at distance 7 it's often following at under a 2s gap. Then it will follow at a huge gap. There's no consistency.

As for wiper issues, it was a little bit misty yesterday evening. No visibility issue, but overhead street lights showed a haze around them. Everywhere with an overhead light => dry wiping, so I had to turn off AP and drive manually for 10+ miles of my journey.

Better in ideal conditions? Maybe. But that envelope is getting very small.

 

[MashinBenzin]

It’s not quite so easy to just turn it down at the last second because you can’t just walk into BMW or Audi and pick up an alternative, especially with the extra long lead times for new cars.

You also have to factor in people will have finance deals locked in at lower interest rates and walking away from that and getting another deal with an even higher rate will mean spending even more money.

They have you over a barrel, nothing more, nothing less.

This. I’d have happily ordered a Skoda Enyaq in March and had something more premium. But they quoted 12 months delivery minimum versus Tesla’s two months (which turned into 6, understandably). Similar story with the EV6 and all other competitors. The ability to deliver a car, even a basic one, quickly is quite a compelling factor.

Certainly in the current market, you’re over a barrel with considering a rejection. And also over a barrel in hanging on to the car now Teslas are back to old school deprecation of 25% in the first couple of months.

 

[Danzr]

Certainly in the current market, you’re over a barrel with considering a rejection. And also over a barrel in hanging on to the car now Teslas are back to old school deprecation of 25% in the first couple of months.

Given the cheapest 2021 SR+ on AutoTrader is listed at £37,495 with 26,000 miles and I think would have been purchased for £40.900 I'm not sure what you're basing that depreciation figure on? It will inevitably be coming and may be much worse than 25% but I don't think there's evidence of that yet.

 

[adasko]

I am wondering are there options to retrofit USS so it will work like the original ones

 

[Tony Hoyle]

No.. the cars without it don't even have the holes for it.

 

[MashinBenzin]

Given the cheapest 2021 SR+ on AutoTrader is listed at £37,495 with 26,000 miles and I think would have been purchased for £40.900 I'm not sure what you're basing that depreciation figure on? It will inevitably be coming and may be much worse than 25% but I don't think there's evidence of that yet.

Just a simple WBAC. Around £60k new in September, £46k on WBAC last week.

If I contrast that with the Discovery it replaced. £67k new invoice in 2020, £58k WBAC in May, £55k WBAC today.

It’s pretty easy to see which car is in demand and which is oversupplied when the Tesla has depreciated more in two months than the Discovery has in over two years. Or five times as much in two months as the Discovery in six. Many ways to slice it but only one obvious conclusion.

Your own car’s depreciation is cushioned by the subsequent price rises.

 

[David T]

Just realised - removal of USS is actually a genius move by Elon to get drivers to reverse park, which is far safer for pedestrians etc and widely adopted by safety-conscious companies in the UK. Only time I "front park" is at a supermarket, so I can get the shopping in the boot

 

[WKUK]

Just a simple WBAC. Around £60k new in September, £46k on WBAC last week.

If I contrast that with the Discovery it replaced. £67k new invoice in 2020, £58k WBAC in May, £55k WBAC today.

It’s pretty easy to see which car is in demand and which is oversupplied when the Tesla has depreciated more in two months than the Discovery has in over two years. Or five times as much in two months as the Discovery in six. Many ways to slice it but only one obvious conclusion.

Your own car’s depreciation is cushioned by the subsequent price rises.

There is a separate thread for panicking about WBAC prices on an hourly basis here:

[UK] used value of their Tesla cars plummeting?

I'm currently waiting for my MY rwd, with delivery date keep pushing forward now November 06, and seeing recent happenings and arrival of MG4 (to challenge that a value EV can also be good) leaves me with an uneasy feeling. China's delivery time for the MY rwd is now 1-4 weeks, and I can't...

teslamotorsclub.com

This thread is for telling everyone why they should really buy a Hyundai

 

[qsmy]

I am wondering are there options to retrofit USS so it will work like the original ones

The loom is there apparently I wonder if they’ll offer it

 

[adasko]

The loom is there apparently I wonder if they’ll offer it

it wouldn't be a good PR for them, but if the loom would be there maybe some mechanics could do this

 

[Unclepaul]

Believe I would be happy to trade my Ultrasonic Sensors for the upgraded, higher resolution, cameras. Never liked the look of those little bumper sensor circles.

 

[adasko]

some people been reporting getting cars without the USS and still old cameras, its annoying that tesla doesn't say when they release software for parking aids