Tesla Vision - To buy or not?

[narenravi88]

Thanks for all your inputs. I've decided to go forward with my purchase.

Reason: I have driven cars without parking sensors or any cameras on them for years. And, I grew up driving in India. I know a thing or two about how close you can get to objects, people, cars, cows etc. WTF am I afraid of? I've been spoilt by my 2019 Model 3. I just have to be a little more attentive, careful, and rely on my eyes and memory (should be doing this anyway) more than I have, recently. Until the neural networks are trained enough to gain my/our trust, I need to appreciate the other great aspects of the car. I think what they did is still a *sugar* move. Whatever.
I've seen a couple of posts saying some people are saying it is getting slightly better. I think this is expected from an AI/ML stand point. Either I become a better driver or the software gets better. Its no a do or die situation.

Rant over. lol

 

[esfan]

Depending on your environment, they may not matter. Tesla cut them to save costs, not because they are offering a better alternative. As usual they didn't offer one.

I went through this with the radar removal of the Y after I ordered it and before it was delivered. If I had known what a cluster truck that was going to be, I'd have cancelled my order and sat it out for a year before the SW got to where it wasn't terrible on that car. My S had radar and then it was disabled in an update. I can categorically tell you that the car was better with radar than without with respect to Phantom braking as well as functionality.

Reducing of the top speed from 90 to 85 for AP tells you that even Tesla doesn't think a pure TV solution works as well as when radar was part of the stack. The reduction was not trivial as there is a highway I am where the speed limit is 85 mph. The speedo reads a little low, and traffic generally runs faster than posted. So I can't use AP on that stretch of road now without becoming a rolling roadblock.

So once again Tesla is downgrading our cars to save a few dollars and giving us a crappier solution in return. Anecdotally, TV generally (for AP) works better on my 3 than my Y. Don't know why just my observation. Maybe with HW4 it will be better. I've learned to not hold my breath for anything Tesla promises. Assume whatever they deliver, it isn't going to get any better. That is a safe assumption and sets your expectations for less disappointment. My Y performed so badly on TV only I ultimately sold it. I don't know if Mullermn would think the radar removal was trivial but after Tesla burned me with that fiasco, I learned my lesson big time. Hence the reason I wasn't going to buy a car without USS until Tesla has a viable option that works for me. The current TV parking aid doesn't even work as remotely well as USS.

I posted somewhere else here that there was what appeared to be a MIC (made in China) 3 driving around the Bay Area for probably testing with what looked to be parking sensors buttons in the bumper. What happens to the 3 often happen to the Y and vice versa. So the speculation was they might be bringing them back. If they do, highly unlikely Tesla will retrofit for you. Again no proof they are doing that but... Here is the vid for reference. Who knows, they may be backtracking on the removal like they did with the yoke on the Y/S.

I would really encourage OP to go drive a 3/Y with the TV being used for parking assist and make up his own mind. Hopefully there is a demo car nearby and he can see. Enjoy whatever you buy and go in with your eyes wide open. Don't assume any future functionality or remotely believe the timeline for it until you see it with your own eyes.

I just read this article and thought about issue. Does this update remedy your AP speed limit issue or does that only apply to AEB?

The most recent Tesla software update comes with numerous changes, ranging in their effect on the driving experience, but five stand out as genuinely product-defining. Most notably, as Tesla continues to improve its excellent vehicle safety, its Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) system has been updated to better detect perpendicular movement, which could help prevent t-bone collisions at intersections, among other situations. Moreover, AEB now operates up to 124mph, up from 90mph.

Link to article:

Tesla's newest software update shows it's not resting on its laurels

Tesla has launched its 2023.12.9 software update for its vehicles worldwide, showing that it remains a leader in innovation.

www.teslarati.com

 

[DayTrippin]

Only to AEB. The max speed is still at 85 mph. Glad there are still trying to improve. TBH, they had no choice.

 

[Yelobird]

Only to AEB. The max speed is still at 85 mph. Glad there are still trying to improve. TBH, they had no choice.

So never understand these “change is bad” must complain forever topics lol. How many people Really care that they can’t illegally go 90 miles per hour on AP?? If it forced you to only go the speed limit sure I may see the point. This topic to me just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining!

 

[uscbucsfan]

So never understand these “change is bad” must complain forever topics lol. How many people Really care that they can’t illegally go 90 miles per hour on AP?? If it forced you to only go the speed limit sure I may see the point. This topic to me just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining!

"Illegal" maybe, but going more than 5 mph over is essential for use in most places.

You understand that there are 85mph speed limits in Texas, right? And there are 80 mph speed limits in multiple states.

 

[DayTrippin]

That was my point here in Texas. The speedometer is an accurate. So if I have it set at 85 miles an hour, which is the speed limit, I am going slower than that. So I am a rolling roadblock. So if I at least can go 90, I’m not impeding traffic and in reality I’m probably doing a true 87 or 88.

 

[Yelobird]

"Illegal" maybe, but going more than 5 mph over is essential for use in most places.

You understand that there are 85mph speed limits in Texas, right? And there are 80 mph speed limits in multiple states.

I am aware but being honest that is more or less an outlier. There is one recorded stretch in TX (highway 130 for 41 miles) that is 85. No others in the US. So I would see this as a micro concern personally and it’s still at 85 which is the limit for car and road. Just something to harp on in my view.

 

[DayTrippin]

If the speedo were dead on, it would be less of an issue. This is an issue for me as I drive this road fairly frequently. I was forced to go to the version that was pure TV when they installed my wheel to replace the yoke and didn't tell me in advance the would force an update. No way of rolling it back.

If TV is so good, and having radar so bad, why did they lower the AP limit from 90 to 85, and why did they increase the minimum following distance on TV vs radar? Tesla took away capability and replaced it with something worse. It was functionally I HAD, but now, no longer do. There is a pattern here with Tesla. So if that is just harping, so be it. Just like when Tesla reduced the charging rate on previous S's as another example.

Enough people "harped" about the joke, I mean yoke, that Tesla finally listened and brought back a wheel. Consider Tesla is in Texas, you would at least think they make AP truly usable on all Texas highways...

 

[esfan]

If the speedo were dead on, it would be less of an issue. This is an issue for me as I drive this road fairly frequently. I was forced to go to the version that was pure TV when they installed my wheel to replace the yoke and didn't tell me in advance the would force an update. No way of rolling it back.

If TV is so good, and having radar so bad, why did they lower the AP limit from 90 to 85, and why did they increase the minimum following distance on TV vs radar? Tesla took away capability and replaced it with something worse. It was functionally I HAD, but now, no longer do. There is a pattern here with Tesla. So if that is just harping, so be it. Just like when Tesla reduced the charging rate on previous S's as another example.

Enough people "harped" about the joke, I mean yoke, that Tesla finally listened and brought back a wheel. Consider Tesla is in Texas, you would at least think they make AP truly usable on all Texas highways...

Haha, sorry, didn't mean to cause any drama. Was hoping this solved your annoyance. Hopefully soon!

 

[francton]

Removing USS was not a cost saving measure. At least, nobody has made a convincing case that it is, anyway.

I believe the rumour was that removing USS saves Tesla about $100M/year. Sounds a lot, but Tesla hare a revenue of $59 BILLION/year - and that was 2021, business has grown since. That means removing USS saves 0.17% which is the equivalent of someone earning $50k saving ~$85 a year. In exchange they have taken significant flak and criticism and scored a PR own goal - no business would do that for such a comparatively trivial saving.

The reason for TV replacing USS is that USS does not get Tesla where they need to be for self parking. USS can't detect curbs, can't distinguish between different objects (foliage vs walls etc), can't see purely visual indicators like parked lines and the output from the sensors is not integrated with the car's 3D model of the world. If Tesla want to deliver a 'robo taxi' that can exit a parked location, make a journey and park again, that's nowhere near good enough.

It is inevitable that TV would replace USS. The annoyance is that they did it before the software was ready, but that may have been prompted by Covid component shortages that affected all manufacturers. Instead of putting them back they decided to go all-in on the TV system they would have eventually moved to anyway.

I would thought that a combination of USS and TV would have been the way to go. They would complement each other well. I believe Tesla are not able to handle situations where contradictory information was provided by USS and TV and hence decided it is better to use only TV. Mistake

 

[Mullermn]

I would thought that a combination of USS and TV would have been the way to go. They would complement each other well. I believe Tesla are not able to handle situations where contradictory information was provided by USS and TV and hence decided it is better to use only TV. Mistake

Tesla seem to have a religious commitment to removing redundant sensors. I don't think that's due to lack of actual capability to integrate them (that is hardly the hardest technical challenge they've dealt with) it's just a philosophical choice that they seem to take to an extreme.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Tesla seem to have a religious commitment to removing redundant sensors. I don't think that's due to lack of actual capability to integrate them (that is hardly the hardest technical challenge they've dealt with) it's just a philosophical choice that they seem to take to an extreme.

I would guess cost cutting/supply chain more than anything.

They removed the passenger lumbar and portable charging cable for the same reasons.

Someone said something like, "It's only going to save them $100 million, which is nothing for Tesla", but that's ridiculous and never how Tesla has operated. They made a change to HW4 to save $2 per board. They pride themselves on saving cost in every aspect because it adds up. Also, eliminating bottlenecks like waiting for suppliers (portable charging cable) or eliminating suppliers (USS) is a big motivator.

 

[Mullermn]

Extrapolating from a general desire for cost efficiency and assuming it's the driving motivation for any one change is foolish.

On other sections of this board people will be lining up to tell us that HW3 is far too under specced to be able to deliver, but Tesla have chosen to put further load on it to save 0.17% of revenue? And that's minus the one off costs of retooling, and the ongoing cost of a team to work on the software. They could have chosen to manufacture their own sensors if supply chain was the major concern, they already make cars (using homegrown processes unique in the industry), batteries and power systems as well as their other minor initiatives like robots, solar roof tiles and supercomputing platforms.

Everyone can form their own conclusions. Cost savings may well explain it for 99% of companies, but Tesla is not the 99%. Tesla's strategy is to shoot for the moon and hope you arrive in orbit once reality forces compromises.

 

[ianc]

"Tesla's strategy is to shoot for the moon and hope you arrive in orbit once reality forces compromises."

As long as it's cost effective...

 

[dave88]

Don't do it. Took delivery of my Model X on 9/10/23 and parking is horrible. Beyond horrible we don't even rely on it anymore. 91k otd and I'm parking like I did back in the 80s

 

[Watts_Up]

Don't do it. Took delivery of my Model X on 9/10/23 and parking is horrible.
Beyond horrible we don't even rely on it anymore. 91k otd and I'm parking like I did back in the 80s

Why not installing one those Backup Radar System Kits,
there are alot of them on Amazon for about $25 rear only and $50 front and rear:

ELSNU

parking sensors

www.amazon.com