Tesla VPP vs Ohmconnect

[garrity]

this was definitely true for me and contributed to a relatively low (calculated/estimated) payout from the recent VPP events.

but without EE, my true-up is going to be ~$1200 vs. ~$200. so it seems like 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other EE vs. demand reduction programs. while getting a check would be nice i'd rather make sure my true-up is sane. at least i don't have to rely on a 3rd party to get that money.

have your cake and eat it too: Can you hold off exporting from 7-8pm early summer and 6-7pm late summer? those are the golden hours where most ohmevents occur.

how do you time your exports? i wish there was an arbitrage button where you set your reserve and tesla app will dump your PW contents near the end of peak period and still keep you drawing from pw through the rest of peak period down to your reserve.

 

[astrorob]

have your cake and eat it too: Can you hold off exporting from 7-8pm early summer and 6-7pm late summer? those are the golden hours where most ohmevents occur.

how do you time your exports? i wish there was an arbitrage button where you set your reserve and tesla app will dump your PW contents near the end of peak period and still keep you drawing from pw through the rest of peak period down to your reserve.

there isn't a direct way to control the exports, but you can edit the price schedule to control things somewhat. beyond that you would probably have to write a script - i assume there is an API that you can use - but i haven't looked into this.

having said that, i'm not sure you could put a "hole" in the peak pricing time such that the PW stops exporting for an hour and then resumes again. so some kind of script might be the only way to accomplish this. for my export limit, home consumption and reserve, i only need about 3.5 hours to discharge the powerwall down to the reserve.

 

[garrity]

there isn't a direct way to control the exports, but you can edit the price schedule to control things somewhat. beyond that you would probably have to write a script - i assume there is an API that you can use - but i haven't looked into this.

having said that, i'm not sure you could put a "hole" in the peak pricing time such that the PW stops exporting for an hour and then resumes again. so some kind of script might be the only way to accomplish this. for my export limit, home consumption and reserve, i only need about 3.5 hours to discharge the powerwall down to the reserve.

I've been able to switch export on and off using the export only and adjacent solar button it takes a little time but can be done. an immediate stop to exporting is sliding the reserve button to 100% reserve. One solution is to just let PW power your home only upto 8pm then export everything after 8pm until you hit your reserve. Daily. The time between 8-12midnight should be enough time to drain your batteries. You don't burn anymore watts and discharge the same amount. Just have to play with your Tesla app a little everyday. When an event occurs you start exporting at 7pm.


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[garrity]

Just received results / “payment” for 9/14 ohmevent. It takes about two business days to get results. This is the example of no manipulation of baseline. Received $19.32

There was another event on 9/15 from 6-7pm Why idk. Load freq balancing???? Just another opportunity to pay for Pw

I should mention that ohmconnect promotes the use of smart plugs that’s where the additional 3200 watts comes from for 8 participating devices. Basically it shuts those devices off during events or in the case of Pw controls it. You can easily exclude those devices at any time and use them

 

[garrity]

I think the biggest consideration for Powerwall users is how much manual effort you're willing to put in - the VPP is pretty hands-off, while for OhmConnect you'll have to manually set Export Everything at the start of each OhmHour.

Good point, I thought it was set and forget, but you do have to select export everything before an event AND turn it off after an event if you don't want to continue discharging down to your reserve. So there is more work to be done compared to VPP.

 

[astrorob]

I've been able to switch export on and off using the export only and adjacent solar button it takes a little time but can be done. an immediate stop to exporting is sliding the reserve button to 100% reserve. One solution is to just let PW power your home only upto 8pm then export everything after 8pm until you hit your reserve. Daily. The time between 8-12midnight should be enough time to drain your batteries. You don't burn anymore watts and discharge the same amount. Just have to play with your Tesla app a little everyday. When an event occurs you start exporting at 7pm.


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fair enough, but i'd want to automate this as i won't want to be fiddling with the app all the time

 

[tfan2018]

I thought $1,000. Vs $500 would be self explanatory. But I think I may have muddled things with too much verbiage

Here are some pictures from my ohmconnect account and you can draw your own conclusions

You don’t have to sit in the dark with the ac off to make bank. But it does help if you do

So those spikes of higher energy usage during peak on the prior 10 days is when you're presumably charging your car to bring up the average?
I guess I will need wait till next summer, given that we are entering the slow period

Just received results / “payment” for 9/14 ohmevent. It takes about two business days to get results. This is the example of no manipulation of baseline. Received $19.32

There was another event on 9/15 from 6-7pm Why idk. Load freq balancing???? Just another opportunity to pay for Pw

I should mention that ohmconnect promotes the use of smart plugs that’s where the additional 3200 watts comes from for 8 participating devices. Basically it shuts those devices off during events or in the case of Pw controls it. You can easily exclude those devices at any time and use them

I see you also earned 1200 watts for the powerwall, you can still export everything?

 

[garrity]

So those spikes of higher energy usage during peak on the prior 10 days is when you're presumably charging your car to bring up the average?
I guess I will need wait till next summer, given that we are entering the slow period


I see you also earned 1200 watts for the powerwall, you can still export everything?

Yes those spikes are when charging. Its a VERY costly way of bumping up your average. But if you are expecting net positive exporter it MIGHT pay off. If you know when actual Flex Alerts are going to happen and get the surge bonus then for sure it pays off.

See this recent example for Sep 20 ohmevent occuring between 8-9pm. Day ahead I got warning so I charged my car from 8-9 day before.



So I "spent" $4.14 (7.53 kWh x .55) and benefitted by bumping my average from 0 up to 0.76kWh which earns me an additional $1.19 (760/635) . So this shows how costly it is to try to game your baseline. So YMMV Does anyone know what the current exchange rate for watts are for PGE true up?



Ohmconnect gives you participation awards in watts. They spot me 1200watts total for my 2 PW each hour they participate.


I can still export everything. I think everyone can still export everything Isn't that what astrorob does?

The ohmevents are still occurring , Sept, 14, 4-5pm 9/15, 6-7pm 9/17, 7-830AM yes in the morning. 9/20 8-9pm and 9/22 8-9pm

I have no idea why these are occurring, I look at the ISO today app and don't see any huge demand during those times. ,

 

[tfan2018]

Yes those spikes are when charging. Its a VERY costly way of bumping up your average. But if you are expecting net positive exporter it MIGHT pay off. If you know when actual Flex Alerts are going to happen and get the surge bonus then for sure it pays off.

See this recent example for Sep 20 ohmevent occuring between 8-9pm. Day ahead I got warning so I charged my car from 8-9 day before.



So I "spent" $4.14 (7.53 kWh x .55) and benefitted by bumping my average from 0 up to 0.76kWh which earns me an additional $1.19 (760/635) . So this shows how costly it is to try to game your baseline. So YMMV Does anyone know what the current exchange rate for watts are for PGE true up?



Ohmconnect gives you participation awards in watts. They spot me 1200watts total for my 2 PW each hour they participate.


I can still export everything. I think everyone can still export everything Isn't that what astrorob does?

The ohmevents are still occurring , Sept, 14, 4-5pm 9/15, 6-7pm 9/17, 7-830AM yes in the morning. 9/20 8-9pm and 9/22 8-9pm

I have no idea why these are occurring, I look at the ISO today app and don't see any huge demand during those times. ,

I thought by letting the powerwall “participate” they will actually turn it off to “save energy” like the smart plugs, so I was under the impression what would happen is that you’d be pulling energy from the grid when they turn the powerwall off. Are you saying your powerwalls are opt in to earn 1200 watts but you’re still able to control the powerwalls and export everything? If so, I have been missing out on all the points from powerwall device watts

 

[garrity]

I thought by letting the powerwall “participate” they will actually turn it off to “save energy” like the smart plugs, so I was under the impression what would happen is that you’d be pulling energy from the grid when they turn the powerwall off. Are you saying your powerwalls are opt in to earn 1200 watts but you’re still able to control the powerwalls and export everything? If so, I have been missing out on all the points from powerwall device watts

Ouch. that's a lot of watts your leaving unused. When you participate, ohmconnect puts your PW into standby mode and sets your reserve to 20%. presumably so that you don't use up your stored energy ahead of dumping it.

I manually turn ON export everything at the start of the event. Remember, their goal is to prevent peaker plants from turning on, one good way is to inject more energy into the grid via PW. It's supposed to start export everything if you already have it selected ahead of time. I just do it manually.

You DO have to turn EE off if you don't want it to continue after the event. There's an ohmevent tonight 8-9pm give it try. Be patient with it, some times it takes a minute or two to start exporting.

 

[wwu123]

Ouch. that's a lot of watts your leaving unused. When you participate, ohmconnect puts your PW into standby mode and sets your reserve to 20%. presumably so that you don't use up your stored energy ahead of dumping it.

I manually turn ON export everything at the start of the event. Remember, their goal is to prevent peaker plants from turning on, one good way is to inject more energy into the grid via PW. It's supposed to start export everything if you already have it selected ahead of time. I just do it manually.

You DO have to turn EE off if you don't want it to continue after the event. There's an ohmevent tonight 8-9pm give it try. Be patient with it, some times it takes a minute or two to start exporting.

Related question, does the EV have to be actively charging at the start of the OhmHour to earn device watts for it (also 1200 device watts, same as Powerwall?) And how is their integration with Tesla API's these days? Back when they first integrated with Tesla, I noticed it kept the car awake 24 x 7, that alone was draining an additional 1-2 kwh every single day, making it not worth keeping the car integration for the occasional OhmHour.

 

[garrity]

Related question, does the EV have to be actively charging at the start of the OhmHour to earn device watts for it (also 1200 device watts, same as Powerwall?) And how is their integration with Tesla API's these days? Back when they first integrated with Tesla, I noticed it kept the car awake 24 x 7, that alone was draining an additional 1-2 kwh every single day, making it not worth keeping the car integration for the occasional OhmHour.

The EV has to be actively charging at least 30 minutes or more prior to the start of the event to get the 1200 watts participation award. Yes, you do get credit when charging off 110V at 5amps. I exchanged my Model 3 for my son's Bolt so I don't know if it has been draining the car or not. I did not notice any increased drain when I had it during the summer.

 

[tfan2018]

Ouch. that's a lot of watts your leaving unused. When you participate, ohmconnect puts your PW into standby mode and sets your reserve to 20%. presumably so that you don't use up your stored energy ahead of dumping it.

I manually turn ON export everything at the start of the event. Remember, their goal is to prevent peaker plants from turning on, one good way is to inject more energy into the grid via PW. It's supposed to start export everything if you already have it selected ahead of time. I just do it manually.

You DO have to turn EE off if you don't want it to continue after the event. There's an ohmevent tonight 8-9pm give it try. Be patient with it, some times it takes a minute or two to start exporting.

I had my pw disabled for auto ohms and ohm hours so I missed it, I will try again for the OhmHour tomorrow

 

[tfan2018]

Ouch. that's a lot of watts your leaving unused. When you participate, ohmconnect puts your PW into standby mode and sets your reserve to 20%. presumably so that you don't use up your stored energy ahead of dumping it.

I manually turn ON export everything at the start of the event. Remember, their goal is to prevent peaker plants from turning on, one good way is to inject more energy into the grid via PW. It's supposed to start export everything if you already have it selected ahead of time. I just do it manually.

You DO have to turn EE off if you don't want it to continue after the event. There's an ohmevent tonight 8-9pm give it try. Be patient with it, some times it takes a minute or two to start exporting.

It worked today! I lost out on sooo many watts however it shifted my powerwall stop discharging hours earlier and I was using energy during peak hours from 3-6pm

 

[garrity]

It worked today! I lost out on sooo many watts however it shifted my powerwall stop discharging hours earlier and I was using energy during peak hours from 3-6pm

Suggest you just manually turn on export everything right at 6pm today

 

[tfan2018]

Suggest you just manually turn on export everything right at 6pm today

I'm on the EV2-A PG&E plan. It seems like ohm connect is making the powerwall switch to 100% reserve 3PM or earlier, so between 3pm-6pm my home is using solar or energy from the grid and not the powerwall. is that how your powerwall is is behaving and then you just switch to export everything at 6pm? I ended up switch my powerwall back to 5% reserve around 4pm today and my powerwall didn't earn 1200 watts since "it was already off"

 

[garrity]

I'm on the EV2-A PG&E plan. It seems like ohm connect is making the powerwall switch to 100% reserve 3PM or earlier, so between 3pm-6pm my home is using solar or energy from the grid and not the powerwall. is that how your powerwall is is behaving and then you just switch to export everything at 6pm? I ended up switch my powerwall back to 5% reserve around 4pm today and my powerwall didn't earn 1200 watts since "it was already off"

My Pw is doing the same thing as you described since my solar took care of all the house I didn’t think much of it. I waited till 555pm and hit the export button.

Maybe switch to to self powered instead of changing your reserves so you don’t do the unthinkable of using grid power during peak times. . I’ll try that next time too

 

[Redhill_qik]

I listen to the "What's Your Problem" podcast which interviews entrepreneurs and engineers about the future they’re trying to build and the problems they have to solve to get there. The latest episode is with Matt Duesterberg who is a co-founder of OhmConnect and goes in details of their business model and how they make money while also paying for all of @garrity 's Amazon gift cards.

Paying People to Turn Off the Fridge | What’s Your Problem?

How do you build a business around getting people to save energy?

www.pushkin.fm

I do wonder how long this business can be a business as pricing around electric rates evolves including @Dave EV 's recent thread on California real-time pricing. I think the business model should probably be good for 15-20 years given the inertia of electric customers and state PUCs to move away from flat and tiered tariffs to TOU tariffs, but if they were a public company I would be closing out my position after two quarters of year-to-year revenue declines.

 

[garrity]

I asked ohmconnect how they were compensated for powerwall users and this is their response:

To be fully transparent, when we have customers with solar/Powerwalls and they have a negative average usage for a specific event, we cannot count that energy savings towards our total "energy reduction in kWh.” This is what we get compensated for from our energy grid providers, and then pass on that compensation to our customers.

As such, for these events OhmConnect is actually out-of-pocket. We are happy to do this because customers with solar often resonate with our vision to build a carbon neutral world.


I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to the viability of using ohmconnect.

 

[wwu123]

I asked ohmconnect how they were compensated for powerwall users and this is their response:

To be fully transparent, when we have customers with solar/Powerwalls and they have a negative average usage for a specific event, we cannot count that energy savings towards our total "energy reduction in kWh.” This is what we get compensated for from our energy grid providers, and then pass on that compensation to our customers.

As such, for these events OhmConnect is actually out-of-pocket. We are happy to do this because customers with solar often resonate with our vision to build a carbon neutral world.


I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to the viability of using ohmconnect.

I'm just interpreting that as saying, if you have a negative baseline (negative average usage), you have a negative baseline. Meaning you have to go even further negative from that baseline to get compensated, and similarly for Ohmconnect to get compensated from the providers. Just like solar.

Which would be consistent with what we've been saying, that if you're already using Export Everything daily, you won't benefit from an OhmHour, since you won't have any further reduction. Do you read it differently?

I find their wording a bit awkward, regarding "customers with solar", as they don't do anything specifically beneficial to solar-only customers, it's more punitive the way they calculate streaks and bonuses.