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Tesla vs. Magnuson Moss - Resolved In Time For Model 3?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by 182RG, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    Several recent threads on service and repairs continue to trouble me.

    Specifically, when does Tesla get called out for this:

    Mini Settles with FTC Over Magnuson-Moss Warranty Law Violation

    Starting in 2012, there were several threads on here regarding the Model S, and the requirement to take your car "to Tesla" for paid service as a provision to keep your warranty intact.

    It doesn't appear that anything has transpired in almost 4 years. If you read page 108 of the current Model S owners manual, there is still wording like:

    "and take Model S to Tesla at the regularly scheduled maintenance intervals of every 12 months, or every 12,500 miles (20,000 km), whichever comes first."

    "Model S must be serviced by Tesla-certified technicians"

    "Do not change or top up Battery coolant and brake fluid yourself. Tesla service technicians replace fluids at the regularly scheduled service intervals:

    • Brake fluid. Every 2 years or 25,000 miles (40,000 km), whichever comes first.

    • Battery coolant. Every 5 years or 62,500 miles (100,000 km), whichever comes first."

    https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/Model-S-Owners-Manual.pdf

    This needs to be resolved, as it appears to violate MM. If they require you to use dealer service to keep your car in warranty, it has to be provided free. And when do service manuals get released beyond Massachusetts?

    I plan on DIY'ing routine maintenance items as I have on every other car I've owned, without fear of voiding the warranty. Audi, VW, Toyota, Infiniti, Ford, and the list goes on.

    Perhaps it's time for the FTC to take a closer look. I'm surprised no one has pushed this issue further, unless I'm missing something? I doubt they requested and were granted a waiver.

    Model 3 buyers are going to feel very differently than $100K buyers.

    Discuss.
     
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  2. CarlitoDoc

    CarlitoDoc Member

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    Mmm, ok. So you want to "work" on a new EV that no-one outside Tesla has ever worked on? :rolleyes: I'm just saying!
     
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  3. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    Brake fluid flush, coolant change, brake pads, rotors? Umm, not rocket science.

    Release the service manuals and change the wording the way Mini was forced to. People can decide for themselves. MM was enacted to protect consumers from behavior like this.
     
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  4. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    Relevant section from https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/Model_S_New_Vehicle_Limited_Warranty_201602_en_NA.pdf

    I believe Tesla complies with the law, nothing to see here.
     
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  5. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    As far as I know those 2012 posts are no longer correct. Annual service is no longer a requirement to keep the warranty.
     
  6. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    The owners manual is still very much in conflict with the statements I cited in the OP. Perhaps they'll get the M3 wording correct?
     
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  7. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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  8. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    Pg 123

    "Topping Up the Brake Fluid

    Do not top up your brake fluid. Tesla service does this when you bring Model S in for regular servicing. The following instructions are provided for information purposes and future reference only: "

    Say Wut?
     
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  9. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

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    I'm not seeing where it says that it will void your warranty...;)

    They are simply saying you don't really have to worry about it because Tesla will do it for you.
     
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  10. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    Sure, on your dime. I'm guessing you paid for the prepaid maint and/or ESA? I don't plan on purchasing any plans.
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #11 stopcrazypp, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
    The manual is not your warranty.

    All Tesla has to ensure is that nowhere in the warranty does it say you have to use Tesla service or parts in order to keep your warranty. The way their latest warranty is worded (notably they removed wording that said "lack of" maintenance would void your warranty), you do not have to do ANY maintenance to keep your warranty. Thus they don't violate any warranty law.
     
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  12. TSLAholic

    TSLAholic Member

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    Personally, I have very little trust in anyone working on any of my cars. Having my dashcam running during services such as wheel alignment and state inspection only proved my theory to be true. The minute your car leaves your sight, the once friendly service manager/tech/specialist turns into a totally different animal. It isn't always easy to hear yourself being referred to in the third face when those working on your baby don't realize you are right there with them...a fly on the windshield, just in front of the rearview mirror. Suddenly, you find out just exactly how little they think of you, personally. That aside, your prized possession is nothing more than a chunk of metal they get to thrash around before moving on to the next one.
    I'm not saying I wouldn't trust Tesla service techs to do a proper job, it's just that some of us would like to continue to take care of our own cars instead of driving 75 miles to the nearest service center for anything other than the necessary inspection. Owners should feel free to rotate tires, replace brake pads and rotors (like they would ever wear out anyway), top off the windshield washer reservoir, replace the windshield wiper blades etc. without any fear of voiding their warranty.
     
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  13. newtman

    newtman Member

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    Service manuals have been available for over a year:

    Welcome | Tesla Service
     
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  14. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    Only if you live in Massachusetts. Try to purchase a subscription. It's only available in that state.
     
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  15. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Only available however to Massachusetts residents, if it is for personal use.
     
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  16. Big Dog

    Big Dog Member

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    Quite the contrary. You are reading something that is not there. The Tesla manual says "damages or failures" created by non-Tesla techs are not covered by the warranty. In other words, you break nick a break line while you are flushing the brakes, they won't fix it for free.
     
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  17. newtman

    newtman Member

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    Depending on how they determine state, you could:
    A) lie and put MA as your state
    b) use a web proxy ala onion/tor located in MA
    C) move to MA ;-)
     
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  18. 182RG

    182RG Free The Service Manuals From Tyranny

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    The crux of it is either their documentation is worded very poorly, or very cleverly. I'm not really sure which it is at this point.

    Sorry guys, I'm not convinced. It's really, REALLY obvious that Tesla is trying to tell you in a thinly masked way that they would prefer you not work on your own car. I find this to be incredibly poor customer service, and frankly insulting.
     
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  19. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    Yes, you are sure. You just said: Sorry guys, I'm not convinced. It's really, REALLY obvious that Tesla is trying to tell you in a thinly masked way that they would prefer you not work on your own car. I find this to be I credibly poor customer service, and frankly insulting.

    Anyway, you should probably sue them.
     
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  20. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    It is not a thinly masked way, it is very obvious they would prefer you not work on your own car. I think you will find this is true with most manufacturers today: there is no longer a focus on serviceability and a lot of repairs require using a computer system that is not generally available to the public or third party shop, which is why "right to repair" laws are being introduced.

    However, saying they prefer you not work on your own car is not illegal.
     

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