Tesla vs. Magnuson Moss - Resolved In Time For Model 3?

[Garlan Garner]

I don't plan on servicing my M3, however I'm certainly going to augment it with 3rd party upgrades.

 

[SageBrush]

You'll get sued by Tesla for doing it, and talking about it.

Service Manual Subscriptions

That fellow told people to cheat via the rather large stage of youTube. I'll give good odds that the threat to sue was so that the video was removed, nothing more.

Can you really not see the difference between him and a person who acquires the manual against terms but limits himself to personal use ? You accuse Tesla of being waaay clever or deceiving. I think it is YOU with the issues. Normal people will quietly acquire the manual by a roundabout or slightly illicit means and NO ONE will care, including Tesla. If you continue to make a nuisance and spectacle of yourself, do not be surprised when unwanted attention comes your way.

 

[182RG]

That fellow told people to cheat via the rather large stage of youTube. I'll give good odds that the threat to sue was so that the video was removed, nothing more.

Can you really not see the difference between him and a person who acquires the manual against terms but limits himself to personal use ? You accuse Tesla of being waaay clever or deceiving. I think it is YOU with the issues. Normal people will quietly acquire the manual by a roundabout or slightly illicit means and NO ONE will care, including Tesla. If you continue to make a nuisance and spectacle of yourself, do not be surprised when unwanted attention comes your way.

Umm, I'm not defending the guy. What he did was wrong. I was simply responding to the post where someone else suggested that you lie to Tesla. I am in complete disagreement with that, as you appear to be as well. So, you can stop preaching to me.

My issue is with the fact that it's not available broadly to consumers. It's not even available to current owners outside of MA.

 

[Krugerrand]

I don't think "I wanna buy a Tesla one day" gives one sufficient standing to sue...

Certainly not in your or my reality.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Brake fluid flush, coolant change, brake pads, rotors? Umm, not rocket science.

Release the service manuals and change the wording the way Mini was forced to. People can decide for themselves. MM was enacted to protect consumers from behavior like this.

I live in Massachusetts.

This is all moot to me, as we were given the voice to vote, and passed, a "Right to Repair" law a few years ago.

I can bring my Model 3 to Sullivan Tire, or anywhere else I want, for the "common" stuff. Brakes, tires, etc....

But I'm not bringing it anywhere except Tesla for anything EV or Tesla-specific. (battery, drivetrain, etc)

 

[SageBrush]

I live in Massachusetts.
I can bring my Model 3 to Sullivan Tire, or anywhere else I want, for the "common" stuff. Brakes, tires, etc....

But I'm not bringing it anywhere except Tesla for anything EV or Tesla-specific. (battery, drivetrain, etc)

In your shoes I would include brake flushes, and maybe pads, in that list. Or at a minimum read the relevant portion of the manual to convince yourself that a regular garage can handle the work and bring the pages with you to the service.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

In your shoes I would include brake flushes, and maybe pads, in that list. Or at a minimum read the relevant portion of the manual to convince yourself that a regular garage can handle the work and bring the pages with you to the service.

I may even shy away from having a non-Tesla place touch my brakes...especially if they'd be in a position to mess up anything to do with regen.

 

[trils0n]

I may even shy away from having a non-Tesla place touch my brakes...especially if they'd be in a position to mess up anything to do with regen.

Regen happens in the motor(s). Not sure how brake maintainence could mess up regen.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Regen happens in the motor(s). Not sure how brake maintainence could mess up regen.

Ah, then I'm all set.

I suppose once the Model 3 manuals are available, I'll have to DL one and acquaint myself.......

 

[182RG]

I may even shy away from having a non-Tesla place touch my brakes...especially if they'd be in a position to mess up anything to do with regen.

The current brake system is off-the-shelf Brembo. Parts and documentation availability should be good already.

 

[Sparky]

I plan on DIY'ing routine maintenance items as I have on every other car I've owned, without fear of voiding the warranty. Audi, VW, Toyota, Infiniti, Ford, and the list goes on.
Discuss.

Slightly off-topic but I wonder what happens when Magnuson-Moss crosses paths with FCVs. My neighbor George is a great mechanic and repairs all his own trucks and off-road critters. But a 10,000 PSI H2 tank and all the fittings sitting 30 ft from my house after George has "serviced" it does give me more than a twinge of concern.

 

[newtman]

You'll get sued by Tesla for doing it, and talking about it.

Service Manual Subscriptions

Lolz

 

[SageBrush]

Regen happens in the motor(s). Not sure how brake maintainence could mess up regen.

There have been multiple reports of people bricking their Prius from routine brake work. I cannot remember details but I think the problems occurred from computer initiated pump activations while lines were disconnected or at low resistance states, leading to emergency fault codes being set.

In effect, the car computer was saying "the brake is not operating in spec. Initiate shut-down."

 

[stopcrazypp]

There have been multiple reports of people bricking their Prius from routine brake work. I cannot remember details but I think the problems occurred from computer initiated pump activations while lines were disconnected or at low resistance states, leading to emergency fault codes being set.

In effect, the car computer was saying "the brake is not operating in spec. Initiate shut-down."

The Prius has blended brakes, so regen is tied to the brakes (at least electronically). Tesla so far only has regen on the accelerator (and likely will keep things that way) so hopefully that means chances of the same is a lot lower (or non-existent).

 

[jaguar36]

Ah, then I'm all set.

I suppose once the Model 3 manuals are available, I'll have to DL one and acquaint myself.......

Well you can't download them, you can only buy a subscription for a limited time. You can print out pages, but they have gone to some decent lengths to make sure you can't just grab the whole thing. In addition you (or a indy shop) will still have a hard time doing alot of the work (such as doing the coolant flush) as it frequently requires using the Tesla Toolbox diagnostic software. They haven't released that software (although I think it would be a requirement of the right to repair law).

 

[jaguar36]

Tesla hasn't reached the point where people want to work on their own cars that much. They've been selling high price point premium vehicles, and they offer free, and excellent, service for 4 years. All of this is covered up to today. Once that changes, I think things will start to open up. I'd suggest watching the environment for the next two years (until you get your first Tesla) and see how it progresses.

The service is not free far from it. Its $500-$600 a year on average depending on if you pre-pay or not. Coming from BMW where service is free for the first 50k miles, that's quite expensive.

 

[SageBrush]

The Prius has blended brakes, so regen is tied to the brakes (at least electronically). Tesla so far only has regen on the accelerator (and likely will keep things that way) so hopefully that means chances of the same is a lot lower (or non-existent).

I'm under the impression that the core issue is the car checking the brake status while maintenance is being done and setting a fault code when the brake is found to not be in spec. That does not sound Prius specific to me.

IIRC the problems were (mostly? all ?) solved by preventing the car from querying or activating any part of the brake system when the car was 'off' by disconnecting the 12v battery. Bottom line: the service manual has to be referenced before brake work is undertaken.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I'm under the impression that the core issue is the car checking the brake status while maintenance is being done and setting a fault code when the brake is found to not be in spec. That does not sound Prius specific to me.

IIRC the problems were (mostly? all ?) solved by preventing the car from querying or activating any part of the brake system when the car was 'off' by disconnecting the 12v battery. Bottom line: the service manual has to be referenced before brake work is undertaken.

The post you responded to was talking about regen, so I presumed the errors you mentioned was related to regen. If it is a general issue that can happen to any car that does not have regen braking, then that is kind of a different subject.

 

[SageBrush]

The post you responded to was talking about regen, so I presumed the errors you mentioned was related to regen. If it is a general issue that can happen to any car that does not have regen braking, then that is kind of a different subject.

I think it is more a case of *EVs having multiple inter-related brake systems that are monitored and periodically tweaked by the car computer. Regen falls under that umbrella.

I apologize for not being more specific although I think my warning to read the service manual before brake work is advice worth heeding.

 

[eloder]

Personally, I have very little trust in anyone working on any of my cars. Having my dashcam running during services such as wheel alignment and state inspection only proved my theory to be true. The minute your car leaves your sight, the once friendly service manager/tech/specialist turns into a totally different animal. It isn't always easy to hear yourself being referred to in the third face when those working on your baby don't realize you are right there with them...a fly on the windshield, just in front of the rearview mirror. Suddenly, you find out just exactly how little they think of you, personally. That aside, your prized possession is nothing more than a chunk of metal they get to thrash around before moving on to the next one.
I'm not saying I wouldn't trust Tesla service techs to do a proper job, it's just that some of us would like to continue to take care of our own cars instead of driving 75 miles to the nearest service center for anything other than the necessary inspection. Owners should feel free to rotate tires, replace brake pads and rotors (like they would ever wear out anyway), top off the windshield washer reservoir, replace the windshield wiper blades etc. without any fear of voiding their warranty.

I'd love to take care of my Tesla maintenance personally, but unfortunately I--along with most of the general public--isn't professionally trained in handling potentially lethal high voltage systems.