Tesla vs. North Carolina on Huffington Post

[Citizen-T]

Also, can someone explain to me why it is perfectly safe and legal for me to shop online and purchase a used car in a private transaction with no one to help me through the process and supply me with floor mats and license plate holders, but I need "protection" when buying a brand new one that comes with a warranty?

I mean, if anything the government should be regulating the private/used car market, not the new car market. There is so much more risk involved in buying used, especially in private sales.

 

[Ludus]

Tesla tried to do this with narrowly crafted legislation as in Texas but the Dealer Associations just don't get that was in their best interest to accept as a compromise. Tesla might as well back a very broad test case in federal court now and seek to have all these state laws struck down as unconstitutional under the dormant commerce clause. They might get support in this from other automakers. This issue has gone unchallenged for many decades but it's a pretty classic example of exactly what the commerce clause was originally intended to prevent (rather than some pretty extreme stretches of it used to justify some federal legislation). The constitution was first and foremost written to create a single country with a single internal market rather than a loose confederation of states which protected their own markets with tariffs or other rules that disadvantaged out of state businesses.

North Carolina may have created a good opportunity to get a broad decision on this, but Tesla and other automakers can afford to hire the best attorneys and pick the best opportunities.

 

[brianman]

Also, can someone explain to me why it is perfectly safe and legal for me to shop online and purchase a used car in a private transaction with no one to help me through the process and supply me with floor mats and license plate holders, but I need "protection" when buying a brand new one that comes with a warranty?

I'm with you...

I mean, if anything the government should be regulating the private/used car market, not the new car market. There is so much more risk involved in buying used, especially in private sales.

... and now you lost me.

"Government is screwing up area A, so the fix is to get them involved in area B."
Disagree, strongly.

 

[adiggs]

I'm with you...

... and now you lost me.

"Government is screwing up area A, so the fix is to get them involved in area B."
Disagree, strongly.

Brian - I don't believe C-T is arguing that the government should actually be involved in regulating the used car market. Only arguing that if the rationale for regulation of the new car market is protection of consumers, then the place where actual consumer protection is needed is not the new car market, but rather the used car market.

Or put another way, the argument being used to protect new car sales actually works better if applied to the used car market (where I think all of us agree, it's just plain silly).

 

[brianman]

Brian - I don't believe C-T is arguing that the government should actually be involved in regulating the used car market. Only arguing that if the rationale for regulation of the new car market is protection of consumers, then the place where actual consumer protection is needed is not the new car market, but rather the used car market.

The problem is that this is not how politics works. We have many lessons over the recent past and the long past, that when you start with "government should do X instead of Y" they do both X and Y. The reason is that government is self-promoting and wants to be involved in everything, by definition. This is why the formation of government involves describing limits of their powers.

If you really want what you describe, you have to start with "government should stop doing Y" and then maybe later consider doing X.

 

[Alfafoxtrot1]

Leilani - thanks for lending your celebrity, spotlight, background, and credibility to this debate. Once all the facts and motivations are on the table, it should be much harder to justify NC's position.

 

[Citizen-T]

I'm with you...

... and now you lost me.

"Government is screwing up area A, so the fix is to get them involved in area B."
Disagree, strongly.

Haha. I didn't actually mean we should do that. My point was just (as others have said) that the logic makes no sense. I would be strongly opposed to them trying to regulate the used/private markets. Just pointing out the inconsistency in the message.

 

[vfx]

LM,

Hope you were able to ditch the camera crew and stretch out the Roadster's electric legs.

 

[leilanimunter]

LM,

Hope you were able to ditch the camera crew and stretch out the Roadster's electric legs.

View attachment 23739

ha! yes, i was. the first time i drove a roadster, i was having a talk with a cop within a few minutes. but the model s, for me, is the masterpiece. after driving into corners at entry speeds of over 200 mph, i didn't think i could get excited about a street car again. i stand corrected. Model S test drive by leilanimunter on Instagram

 

[DriverOne]

Like Elon said, there hasn't been a single successful new automaker in the U.S. that has used the franchised dealership model in the past 90 years.

Ask Fisker and Coda how well the dealership model worked......

What about Honda, Toyota, etc?

 

[Ven Rala]

Leilani - thanks for lending your celebrity, spotlight, background, and credibility to this debate. Once all the facts and motivations are on the table, it should be much harder to justify NC's position.

Agree wholeheartedly. Keep fighting! Looks like we may need to do the same in Maryland now.

 

[jeff_adams]

What about Honda, Toyota, etc?

Established in their own countries before coming to US.

 

[GSP]

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum. I am a race car driver living in North Carolina and our state legislature is trying to pass a bill to stop Tesla from selling cars in our state. I have been meeting with lawmakers here since the bill passed the Senate and soon I will testify before the House Transportation Committee. I wrote this article about the fight for Huffington Post and wanted to share it with all the Tesla owners and enthusiasts here:

Leilani Munter, Huffington Post: Why We Need to Fight for Tesla

Hopefully we will win this fight, but the dealers are very powerful here.

Leilani
Carbon Free Girl
Never Underestimate a Vegetarian Hippie Chick With a Race Car

Leilani,

This a a great article. Thank you for your active support.

GSP

 

[brianman]

the model s, for me, is the masterpiece. after driving into corners at entry speeds of over 200 mph, i didn't think i could get excited about a street car again. i stand corrected.

Now that is a tagline that I'd love to see @ TeslaMotors.com

 

[PeterK]

Established in their own countries before coming to US.

On that note, I don't think it's just Tesla that the dealers are afraid of. They are worried that Tesla sets a precedent that the next wave of new US market entrants from China and India will try to follow. But unlike Tesla, I think they would have a hard time establishing themselves without dealers - at the low end models, prices and margins they would target, they likely wouldn't be able afford or take the risk of a direct model.

 

[PopSmith]

On that note, I don't think it's just Tesla that the dealers are afraid of. They are worried that Tesla sets a precedent that the next wave of new US market entrants from China and India will try to follow.

One solution could be that in order to sell direct the manufacturer can only sell pure EVs (no plug-in hybrids). They could also add that the manufacturer has to be U.S.-based but I think the former would be better.

 

[vfx]

...Tesla sets a precedent that the next wave of new US market entrants from China and India will try to follow.....

If those dealers are all so powerful then they should get tariffs added to all new car companies from outside the US.

 

[Brit4864]

Great article and accurately written. Elon should reward you with a race version Model S. It would be good for publicity!

 

[TexasEV]

PopSmith, it shouldn't matter if a new company wants to sell cars powered by electricity, gas, or horse manure. Likewise it shouldn't matter if it's an American car or import. Let the market decide how cars are sold. If consumers find a dealer adds value, they will buy a car a dealer sells. If not, they will buy a car available directly from the manufacturer. The state has no business mandating one approach or the other.

 

[Soflason]

Welcome LM, the article in Huff Post was fantastic. Especially appreciate your support of Tesla and continuing the fight against the unfair and underhanded NADA folks. Keep up the good work :biggrin:

@LM - Have you talked to anyone at Tesla about racing the Model S (or a modified version)?