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Tesla vs Volvo xc60 T8 vs Cadillac ct6 Super Cruise

Discussion in 'Model S' started by aplover, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. aplover

    aplover Member

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    Drove xc60 T8 with Pilot Assist fully loaded. The car is hybrid and can go in all electric mode, so, all that was impressive.
    The Pilot Assist was actually very good it kept the lane quite well, however:
    1) on not so tight curves 80 miles/hour it crossed the markers
    2) couple time it disengaged WITHOUT ANY alert, just the green thing on the dashboard turned off.

    So, I wonder,
    1) how much better/worse is Auto Pilot with latest greatest hardware? Does it alert when it disengages?
    2) Does Tesla Auto Pilot manage to do properly 80 miles an hour high way curves? (ie normal drive does not sweat making these turns, they are not super tight)
    3) Super Cruise is clearly better then Auto Pilot on the highway?

    What do people think?
     
  2. Tiger

    Tiger Member

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    Autopilots are quite dangerous at the moment, it's like letting your kids drive on a family trip. Anyays, Tesla drives better (manually) than Volvo T8. Haven't tried Cadillac, probably CTS-V drives nicely but is quite noisy.
     
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  3. mblakele

    mblakele radial cross member

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    @aplover I'm guessing your test drive at 80 mph on not so tight curves was along 280? I've used AP (HW1) on those curves almost every weekday for the past year and a half. Sometimes poor markings or by gaps in the road surface can confuse AP, but overall it does very well.

    Volvo's unannounced disengagement sounds scary and dangerous. Tesla AP can disengage on its own if something goes wrong. There's a lot of beeping, plus a screen with red hands and a "take over immediately" message. I've seen it once or twice in 27,000 miles.

    Newer Teslas have AP with HW2, and opinions run quite strong about whether or not HW2 matches up to the performance of the old HW1 system. Some swear "no", others maintain "yes". I don't know who is right.

    You could ask Tesla to arrange an overnight test drive, and see for yourself. Or if you find the stories about HW2 disturbing, you might consider a CPO Tesla with AP HW1.
     
  4. stan23

    stan23 Member

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    We have both. I have a model S with AP2 and my wife has a 2017 XC90 T8 with pilot assist 2. The Volvo is not quite the level as the Tesla, but still very usable in stop and go traffic and turns on the freeway. With the Volvo, you need to have your hand in the steering wheel every 30 seconds.

    I have never had the Volvo disengage pilot assist without warning.
     
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  5. blackhawk

    blackhawk Member

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    I looked at the new XC60 pretty closely as my neighbor has an XC90 and won't stop raving about it. It's certainly a nice car but:

    - You have to choose the top trim level to have the plug-in T8 hybrid plant
    - Fuel economy on the T8 drops to 26 mpg (presumably due to the extra battery weight)
    - EV-only range is allegedly only 20 miles, which is inadequate for most commutes

    Personally I prefer a pure BEV car over those compromises. I can see how it's a good starter for people unfamiliar with EV's, and there are certain use cases for it, but even Volvo themselves have said they are going to pure BEV in the future.

    I was unimpressed by the Volvo autopilot features. They felt like they were years behind AP2. About the only feature it did have was rain sensing wipers and lane warnings, both of which Elon has promised 'soon'. :)

    Volvo, Betting on Electric, Moves to Phase Out Conventional Engines
     
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  6. Tiger

    Tiger Member

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    Press the gas pedal hard few imtes and T8's battery charge is pretty much gone. The good thing is that you can recharge it by driving around in carge-with-gas-mode. However, T8 is no match for tesla in performance or ride quality.
     
  7. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    This is called confirmation bias...
     
  8. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    This is the kind of comparison torture test I'd love to see someone do (or help do) - take the cars through a defined public course of mixed conditions, involving challenges of various sorts - and see how they do. The last time this kind of comparison was done was about two years ago I believe - Car and Driver doing a 20 mile loop on public roads in Michigan and counting up error or disengagement numbers.
     
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  9. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    Could you describe in more detail your comparisons/experience/thoughts on each? You are the only person I know of who has both cars and extensive experience with them.
     
  10. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    I was just about to crack a joke about how the resident forum youtube video expert would be along shortly - but you saved me the trouble. :)
     
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  11. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    @blackhawk - ignore bladerskb - he doesn't own either car and has no experience behind the wheel. But he hangs around and talks a lot.
     
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  12. MisterTwo

    MisterTwo Member

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    We also have both; my MS75D is AP2.5 which may or may not matter. The Volvo system is great once you learn where it will have issues and watch the road for those potential issues (same with AP 2). I've driven across the country with it, and it works great at up to 85mph. Once turns hit a certain radius it starts to have issues which the Tesla AP 2.5 seems to handle slightly better. I only have about 400 miles of Telsa AP experience, but overall I'd say:
    • Tesla's system is better and will possibly improve into more of a L3/L4 system
    • Volvo's system is getting updates too, but only at the dealership, we got the 2.0 software earlier this year, and it improved tracking without a lead car
    • Tesla's AP system is better at city streets
    • Tesla's AP supports auto lane change, Volvo doesn't, but once you change lanes half way it takes back over control and centers you quickly
    • Volvo's system nags more about having your hands on the wheel and doesn't handle the transition back to the driver as well as Telsa
    • For middle lane, long interstate cruising both systems work exceptionally well
    Overall Tesla vs. Volvo (SPA platform) comparison:
    • Volvo's Inscription package interior is fantastic, much better than Tesla with regards to desgin, fit, finish, and materials quality.
    • Tesla's infotainment and drivetrain are obviously superior ;)
    • IMO if you want an ICE vehicle, the SPA platform Volvo is the one of the best around, but I prefer my Model S for the technology and drivetrain.
     
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  13. blackhawk

    blackhawk Member

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    At the time I hadn't bought my Model S, so not really.

    Interestingly since my neighbor drove my Model S, he's stopped raving about the systems on his XC90
     
  14. gekkota

    gekkota Member

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    What a funny thread this is. I just picked up a 2018 XC60 T8 to compliment our 2016 S90D refresh. We had actually looked at some inventory model X's but the build quality was pretty disappointing. The XC60 was a bit of a gamble as there are not many reviews yet, but its build quality is sooo delicious. Turns out we can get around 22 miles of range pretty easily which is great for our commute. The Pilot Assist is similar to Tesla although it does disengage much easier. Lane keeping and steering wheel feel seems a bit better on the XC at 50 mph. I rarely use the Tesla Autopilot as it tends to wander a bit on the Chicago highways, though on our trip to Minneapolis it did well. I have stomped the throttle on the XC numerous times and its pretty quick - and of course all of that energy is not wasted as regen is good - back into the battery on the decel.
     
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  15. aplover

    aplover Member

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    Can Volvo owners verify the following:
    1) My biggest problem with Volvo is silent disengagement, it it will just turn off without you even knowing it happened. This is especially annoying since auto-steer symbol is NOT projected on the windshield. IE I literally have to look at the dashboard all the time to see whether Volvo self drives, this is not even safe since I have to look at the dashboard all the time. Major failure, correct?
    2) is Tesla Autopilot any better in this regard? Does it ring some bell when it disengages? Does it project on the windshield that the car is driving itself?

    thank you very much guys!
     
  16. MattMatt

    MattMatt Member

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    In the Tesla every AP disengagement auto or manual is with an audible ding. If AP disengages on its own there is a very noticeable audio alert and dashboard message informing you to take over manually
     
  17. stan23

    stan23 Member

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    1. It's pretty obvious when the Volvo Pilot assist will turn off. You're not looking at the dash, but you will get dash warnings, and an audible alert.
    2. No, Same way with tesla, you'll get some prompts on the dash with audible alert.
     
  18. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    It's the 2018 Cadillac CT6 Platinum (large luxury sedan) that should ship with Super Cruise next month. V-Series Cadillacs are a different animal. No, they are not loud compared to other 200mph+ cars.
     
  19. stan23

    stan23 Member

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    Sure, I'll list the pros and cons when compared to each other. The Volvo we have is a custom ordered T8 XC90 in R-Design trim. It took about 4 months from order to delivery. The Model S I have is a RWD 75, with premium, EAP, 21" wheels, etc..

    Volvo Pros:

    - The fit and finish is impeccable, as is the delivery process. The Nappa leather keys were delivered in a jewelry box! Everything from the crystal shift knob to the quality of the real carbon fiber in the interior is top notch. Definitely a step above the plastic carbon fiber that is in my model S. The overall fit and finish is best of any cars we've owned. Easily surpassing my new F80 BMW M3.

    - The car comes with many functions, 'real' 360 camera, park assist, lane keep, text readout on the dash, customizable LCD dash, XM, USB playback, customizable interior color lighting, etc.. Basically any and everything I can think of the car has it. We especially love the integrated 2nd row booster seat in the middle.

    - The T8 is a plug in hybrid, with a rather small gas tank. Something like 13 gallons. With electric only local driving, and turning off the electric motor on freeway drives, we've been able to get close to 500 miles to a tank. My wife plugs in the car every night.

    - Performance in the snow is amazing. Just set it to snow mode, and the car will do a virtual 4WD with lockers. Gas motor powers the front wheels, and the electric motor powers the rear. My Model S is RWD, so I have no comparison.

    - The car is surprisingly peppy for it's size/weight. When in 'sport' mode, I think it gets to high 13 quarter mile times.

    - They gave us some concierge service credits. We have had them come fill up the gas tank in the middle of then night.

    - The panoramic sun roof is very nicely done. There's also an retractable opaque sunshade that is electronically controlled.

    Volvo Cons:

    - The engine noise sounds rather bland. I mean it's a 2.0 liter turbo and supercharged motor, but it sounds really wimpy.

    - The ipod like user interface is kind of laggy. It's not smooth when swiping from window to window.

    - The open trunk with your foot doesn't seem to work well.

    - The auto pilot requires you to touch the steering wheel way to frequently. Something like every 15 seconds on highway driving.

    - The Nappa leather on the driver bolsters is already showing some rear after 10 months. The bolsters are very aggressive making entry/exit difficult

    Tesla Pros:

    - All electric performance, supercharger network, etc.. The version I have is 4.3sec 0-60, and it's an absolute beast when accelerating from a dead stop.

    - The MCU for operating the car is fantastic.

    - With staggered 21's the car handles surprisingly well.

    - The car is very quiet.

    - I have the ultra white vegan interior, and it is fantastic. Real easy to clean.

    - With the Tesla, I feel like i'm driving a car from the future. From the shape, to the sound. It's very refreshing coming from an ICE background.

    Tesla Cons:

    - Fit and finish is rather poor. Many of my hood/bumper/hatch/door gaps are not lined up correctly.

    - I've had more issues with the car than any other new car we've had in the past. Very minor stuff, but issues nonetheless on a new car.


    Overall, both cars are different enough that we enjoy both. Before buying the Volvo, I asked my wife if she rather have the Model X instead, and she didn't really like it, even though she loves the EV experience. When it was time to choose our Tesla, the X was never in consideration. She likes the S much more.

    Some pics:

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  20. aplover

    aplover Member

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