Tesla vs Volvo xc60 T8 vs Cadillac ct6 Super Cruise

[stan23]

Just so we're on the same page. Neither the Volvo xc90 or Tesla has any sort of heads up display on the windshield.

It's pretty obvious when auto pilot turns off, you may not be looking at the dash, but your peripheral vision should/would see it, as well as an audible alert. Not only that, it gives you ample warning before turning it off. Furthermore, when the system does turn off, you would feel it in the wheel.

I forgot, but I think on the volvo, the steering wheel actually vibrates when it gives you the warning as well.

I have yet to hear of anyone both Tesla and Volvo forums not know when auto pilot is about to disengage.

 

[gekkota]

Hmm, my brand new XC60 T8 has a great HUD on the windshield - its one of my favorite features!

 

[stan23]

Hmm, my brand new XC60 T8 has a great HUD on the windshield - its one of my favorite features!

Really?? That sucks for us then. We buy the top of the line model and get screwed on the features.

 

[gekkota]

Compared to our S90D the XC60 is an interesting counterpoint in safety and autonomous features. The XC60 is less about driving itself down the highway and more about providing safe and meaningful alerts and interaction during a potential accident. In the past week the XC60 has directly intervened through braking and steering more than the S90D during the past year of owning it. I'm surprised at this, and yet also feel fortunate to be at the wheel of two such amazing vehicles. Both are leading edge, though both are pushing a different edge of the envelope.

 

[calisnow]

Compared to our S90D the XC60 is an interesting counterpoint in safety and autonomous features. The XC60 is less about driving itself down the highway and more about providing safe and meaningful alerts and interaction during a potential accident. In the past week the XC60 has directly intervened through braking and steering more than the S90D during the past year of owning it. I'm surprised at this, and yet also feel fortunate to be at the wheel of two such amazing vehicles. Both are leading edge, though both are pushing a different edge of the envelope.

That's cool - tell us more about what interventions the Volvo has made.

 

[buttershrimp]

Sure, I'll list the pros and cons when compared to each other. The Volvo we have is a custom ordered T8 XC90 in R-Design trim. It took about 4 months from order to delivery. The Model S I have is a RWD 75, with premium, EAP, 21" wheels, etc..

Volvo Pros:

- The fit and finish is impeccable, as is the delivery process. The Nappa leather keys were delivered in a jewelry box! Everything from the crystal shift knob to the quality of the real carbon fiber in the interior is top notch. Definitely a step above the plastic carbon fiber that is in my model S. The overall fit and finish is best of any cars we've owned. Easily surpassing my new F80 BMW M3.

- The car comes with many functions, 'real' 360 camera, park assist, lane keep, text readout on the dash, customizable LCD dash, XM, USB playback, customizable interior color lighting, etc.. Basically any and everything I can think of the car has it. We especially love the integrated 2nd row booster seat in the middle.

- The T8 is a plug in hybrid, with a rather small gas tank. Something like 13 gallons. With electric only local driving, and turning off the electric motor on freeway drives, we've been able to get close to 500 miles to a tank. My wife plugs in the car every night.

- Performance in the snow is amazing. Just set it to snow mode, and the car will do a virtual 4WD with lockers. Gas motor powers the front wheels, and the electric motor powers the rear. My Model S is RWD, so I have no comparison.

- The car is surprisingly peppy for it's size/weight. When in 'sport' mode, I think it gets to high 13 quarter mile times.

- They gave us some concierge service credits. We have had them come fill up the gas tank in the middle of then night.

- The panoramic sun roof is very nicely done. There's also an retractable opaque sunshade that is electronically controlled.

Volvo Cons:

- The engine noise sounds rather bland. I mean it's a 2.0 liter turbo and supercharged motor, but it sounds really wimpy.

- The ipod like user interface is kind of laggy. It's not smooth when swiping from window to window.

- The open trunk with your foot doesn't seem to work well.

- The auto pilot requires you to touch the steering wheel way to frequently. Something like every 15 seconds on highway driving.

- The Nappa leather on the driver bolsters is already showing some rear after 10 months. The bolsters are very aggressive making entry/exit difficult

Tesla Pros:

- All electric performance, supercharger network, etc.. The version I have is 4.3sec 0-60, and it's an absolute beast when accelerating from a dead stop.

- The MCU for operating the car is fantastic.

- With staggered 21's the car handles surprisingly well.

- The car is very quiet.

- I have the ultra white vegan interior, and it is fantastic. Real easy to clean.

- With the Tesla, I feel like i'm driving a car from the future. From the shape, to the sound. It's very refreshing coming from an ICE background.

Tesla Cons:

- Fit and finish is rather poor. Many of my hood/bumper/hatch/door gaps are not lined up correctly.

- I've had more issues with the car than any other new car we've had in the past. Very minor stuff, but issues nonetheless on a new car.


Overall, both cars are different enough that we enjoy both. Before buying the Volvo, I asked my wife if she rather have the Model X instead, and she didn't really like it, even though she loves the EV experience. When it was time to choose our Tesla, the X was never in consideration. She likes the S much more.

Some pics:

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Dang your Tesla looks schweet.

 

[cab]

VERY interested in this thread. We have a 2013 P85+ and a 2012 XC60 R-Design. I have been waiting for the XC60 T8 and, of course, it has just appeared here on U.S. lots (Gekkota, you have to be the only Tesla and XC60 T8 owner in the U.S. at this point). My wife and I both work from home to the T8's modest range would actually cover us in a lot of daily driving.

GekkotA - how is the performance in pure (EV) mode? Is it a dog or does it feel reasonable and does it stay in that mode w/o having to baby it?

 

[aplover]

Basically, my problem with xc60 is that while I drive on the highway and Drive Assist is on, it can be some portion of the highway where it's not marked properly. When this happens, I noticed that Drive Assist just silently turns itself off. Am I missing something is it the case or not? I understand it will ding at you if you don't hold the steering wheel but I am talking about the situation when you hand ARE on the wheel and it turns itself off without any warning.

 

[gekkota]

It does stay in "Pure" mode pretty easily - you have to push the accelerator close to half-way in order for it to engage the gasoline engine. It's no powerhouse in Pure mode, to be sure - but you can drive around without people honking at you. This morning we hit 75 mph on the highway easily, and sustained it with no problem. We are enjoying the car quite a bit so far!

VERY interested in this thread. We have a 2013 P85+ and a 2012 XC60 R-Design. I have been waiting for the XC60 T8 and, of course, it has just appeared here on U.S. lots (Gekkota, you have to be the only Tesla and XC60 T8 owner in the U.S. at this point). My wife and I both work from home to the T8's modest range would actually cover us in a lot of daily driving.

GekkotA - how is the performance in pure (EV) mode? Is it a dog or does it feel reasonable and does it stay in that mode w/o having to baby it?

 

[gekkota]

In one case we were on a two lane highway coming to an end with a four lane split and traffic light. Usually I aim for the far left lane as drivers tend to stack up in the second to left lane. In this case there was enough room to squeak by with the left tires of the car just over the white line and get a closer spot to the red light. Drivers tend to roll up to the end of this highway pretty aggressively - 50+mph. About 30 feet from the cars in the second to left lane and approaching fast I was about to dart over to the left and make my way to the front of that line. The car automatically engaged braking for about one second (enough for the ABS to engage). It was surprising for sure - but not enough to distract me. The HUD displayed a car distance warning during this time as well. I execute this maneuver several times a week in the S90D and it has never engaged any form of automatic braking. I believe that the XC60 determined that I did not have enough room to move through (following traditional lane markings) and tried to intervene.

Hopefully this description does not start a series of comments about my driving choices, and also this is not meant to reflect negatively on Tesla. Its fun and interesting technology, and great to experience and talk about.

The other two driving interventions were when I had wandered too close to the edge of the road - the steering wheel slightly nudged me back into place - with enough force that I said out loud "whoa, that was interesting!"

That's cool - tell us more about what interventions the Volvo has made.

 

[TLej]

My wife just got a new 2018 XC60 about 2 weeks ago (not the T8 unfortunately, just too far above our price range). She has also had the driver assist systems take action, preventing her from rear-ending a student driver who decided to hammer the brakes for no apparent reason. The Drive just did a write-up on Volvo's take on driver-assist technologies, which I found to be quite interesting as a counterpoint to Tesla's approach to active safety technologies. 2018 Volvo XC60 T8 Review: Loads of Impressive Tech, Not That You'd Noticeand That's the Point.

 

[pdxrob]

This thread has been very helpful. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the S90 T8? Looks like most folks have the SUVs, but I prefer sedans/wagons. I really wish the V90/V60 T8 was available in the USA.

I'm debating between this or waiting for the Model 3 (as well as a few other cars that are great on paper but uninspiring).

 

[buttershrimp]

This thread has been very helpful. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the S90 T8? Looks like most folks have the SUVs, but I prefer sedans/wagons. I really wish the V90/V60 T8 was available in the USA.

I'm debating between this or waiting for the Model 3 (as well as a few other cars that are great on paper but uninspiring).

Yes, I have some thoughts... The Volvo is a great car... For me to poop on!

Seriously, though, go drive any Tesla on autopilot, once you realize how amazing this is, ask yourself if you are OK with some other car brand that will not likely come close to a Tesla's capability for another 5 years. If you are OK with that, then go for it. There are cars out there with nicer interiors and nicer stereos, maybe more prestige to the unenlightened car fan. But if you are serious about having the best vehicle on the road.... I can't fathom anything close to a Tesla with a straight face. Also, consider this.... Tesla still doesn't advertise... it is such an amazing vehicle that it turns people like me into crack addict car owners that go on threads and sell Teslas for them.... So, if you don't like crack... don't get a Tesla.... also, may I suggest this video for you?

I hope we've all learned something today.

 

[TLej]

Just wanted to provide a further thought. On Monday I had the opportunity to drive my wife's XC60 for the first time. I drove with the Pilot Assist on for about 325 km of a 400km drive. For those 325 km, I had the PA drop out 3 times due to road conditions (construction with variable lane markings twice, twisty section of multiple underpasses with various shading sunlight once). It didn't warn me ahead of time, just bailed. I also noticed that when it wanted me to hold the wheel/provide feedback, I got one visual notice, then a chime with the visual notice. I don't know what happened after that because I gave it what it was looking for. There were no prolonged periods with hands-off-wheel; the Pilot Assist is much more interested in making sure your hands are on the wheel than what I gather from the Autopilot videos I've watched, and I would guess that no more than 10 or 15 seconds went by without a nag. I did find the audio nag more effective than the initial visual one, and once I understood the level of engagement it was looking for I could go long periods (tens of minutes) without being nagged at all.

As a rare Tesla owner without Autopilot enabled (car has the AP1 hardware, I just didn't purchase the activation), this was my first foray into the driver-assist world, and I have to say I was pretty impressed. I was driving on two-lane undivided highway as well as 4-lane divided (some areas of 6-lane divided), and although the Pilot Assist tended to want to take off-ramps, once I figured out those characteristics it was extremely stable and generally centered in the lane as well as or better than me. It took every corner of the highway without my input, although I noticed it tended to square the corner off (so the path would have looked more like a polygon than a smooth curve). It did a great job of slowing gently, predictably, and maintaining following distance (in seconds) when we encountered a traffic stoppage on the highway.

Eventually I took over as the road was getting slippery, but I was surprised at just how well the system did. I can't stand the active cruise control, but it is extremely effective. I just found that even on the shortest distance setting (of 5 available) it wouldn't get close enough to the car in front for me to start a pass, and since I wasn't watching the speedometer closely I would close on a car and then wonder why I wasn't gaining any more, only to realize that we'd been speed-matched for a while. This resulted in more slowing and accelerating than would be normal in my non-TACC Model S drive, so was overall less efficient. Unfortunately the Volvo PA only works in conjunction with the adaptive cruise, so when I wanted to get rid of the adapting I lost the driving component as well.

All in all, I would liken the experience to driving a car that has really good alignment; a couple of fingers on the wheel to provide gentle nudges back and forth a bit as needed, hand on the wheel through a curve like I normally would but without much effort required. Not enough to make me want to activate the AP on my car, but it was a novelty and it felt like Volvo really has a good product out there.

That being said, their Pilot Assist info display is in a bad place on the dash; lower left corner, and the icons are small. Some of it is hidden by the steering wheel hub when I have the wheel set to my preferred position. I really missed the centre display on my Tesla that shows the cars and road that the camera/radar sees; the Volvo has a version of this but it's pretty small and out of the main line of sight. It seemed to me that the radar picks up vehicles much further down the road than my car does; it seems like my car can't see anything more than about 3 seconds ahead at 120 km/h (about 100m down the road), whereas the Volvo was locking on to cars to speed match at least 5 seconds ahead (+/- 170m). Given that the Volvo has a configurable instrument display, it would be great if they at least gave the option to move the Pilot Assist stuff up front and centre between the speedo and tach - it would really improve situational awareness with what the Pilot Assist is doing.

We can't afford to have two Teslas, but if Volvo can get their EV act together, they might have earned a repeat customer in 3 years when the XC60 comes off lease. If not, hopefully the Model Y is out by then.