Tesla walks away from public funding for Superchargers because of payment system integration

[STS-134]

Tesla has walked away from $6 million in funding for DC fast chargers in California. Someone has noted that maintaining screens on its supercharger stations would be "a maintenance nightmare", which might explain why they did it.

Tesla walks away from public funding for Superchargers because of payment system integration

Tesla has decided to walk away from millions of dollars in public funding for Superchargers in California due to a...

electrek.co

 

[mongo]

Tesla has walked away from $6 million in funding for DC fast chargers in California, saying that maintaining screens on its supercharger stations would be "a maintenance nightmare".

Tesla walks away from public funding for Superchargers because of payment system integration

Tesla has decided to walk away from millions of dollars in public funding for Superchargers in California due to a...

electrek.co

Did Tesla say that quote, or just someone in the comments?

Tesla letter:
"The California Clean Energy Commission (CEC) has been a great visionary in the expansion of electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure in California. Unfortunately, due to unnecessarily cumbersome payment infrastructure requirements, we are unable to utilize this award."

 

[stopcrazypp]

Did Tesla say that quote, or just someone in the comments?

Tesla letter:
"The California Clean Energy Commission (CEC) has been a great visionary in the expansion of electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure in California. Unfortunately, due to unnecessarily cumbersome payment infrastructure requirements, we are unable to utilize this award."

The part about "maintenance nightmare" is just someone in the comments, which Electrek's system highlights in the center of article (can be quite misleading to format the page this way)? The extent of Tesla's comments is only that in the letter.

It makes complete sense that this may be an issue, Tesla stations just aren't set up like a kiosk. One cheaper way I thought they may have been able to handle it, is to have one central payment kiosk for the whole station, but that doesn't really save you from the maintenance.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Tesla has walked away from $6 million in funding for DC fast chargers in California, saying that maintaining screens on its supercharger stations would be "a maintenance nightmare".

Tesla walks away from public funding for Superchargers because of payment system integration

Tesla has decided to walk away from millions of dollars in public funding for Superchargers in California due to a...

electrek.co

The only quote from Cohen the Chargerian is that "The California Clean Energy Commission (CEC) has been a great visionary in the expansion of electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure in California. Unfortunately, due to unnecessarily cumbersome payment infrastructure requirements, we are unable to utilize this award"

No mention of screen maintenance. They just don't want to deal with the required payment methods.
Tesla does not like any additional costs.

 

[STS-134]

Did Tesla say that quote, or just someone in the comments?

Edited. Someone in the comments said it, not Tesla.

The part about "maintenance nightmare" is just someone in the comments, which Electrek's system highlights in the center of article (can be quite misleading to format the page this way)? The extent of Tesla's comments is only that in the letter.

It makes complete sense that this may be an issue, Tesla stations just aren't set up like a kiosk. One cheaper way I thought they may have been able to handle it, is to have one central payment kiosk for the whole station, but that doesn't really save you from the maintenance.

I think it's easier to just not have the screen-based payment method. If that payment method goes down, does that count as the charger being inoperable?

 

[SVMike]

In the long term I don't see a screen as a big problem. At a site like Kettleman City (first site) you could have a single screen at a kiosk near the restroom building. With 40+ chargers and another 40+ a few blocks away there will be a maintenance guy checking in frequently. The first site has a coffee bar with daily employees. Now imagine some years in the future where there are hundreds of sites like that.
Even put in two kiosks that can operate any of the CCS enabled stations.

 

[STS-134]

In the long term I don't see a screen as a big problem. At a site like Kettleman City (first site) you could have a single screen at a kiosk near the restroom building. With 40+ chargers and another 40+ a few blocks away there will be a maintenance guy checking in frequently. The first site has a coffee bar with daily employees. Now imagine some years in the future where there are hundreds of sites like that.
Even put in two kiosks that can operate any of the CCS enabled stations.

They could just put in one kiosk and not maintain it. EA gets away with not maintaining their credit card readers all the time and I haven't seen California crack down on this behavior. The only payment method that actually works at EA is the app.

 

[beatle]

The part about "maintenance nightmare" is just someone in the comments, which Electrek's system highlights in the center of article (can be quite misleading to format the page this way)? The extent of Tesla's comments is only that in the letter.

Agreed, Electrek's recent integration of comments into the article is just lazy journalism, filling the page with unverified trash.

The whole "screen is a maintenance nightmare" comment doesn't seem to affect gas stations or any retail store. All of them have screens to prompt the buyer and provide information about the transaction and they all work most of the time.

I can't say I've wished for a screen when supercharging though. I can view everything I need to know on the app or the car.

 

[STS-134]

Agreed, Electrek's recent integration of comments into the article is just lazy journalism, filling the page with unverified trash.

The whole "screen is a maintenance nightmare" comment doesn't seem to affect gas stations or any retail store. All of them have screens to prompt the buyer and provide information about the transaction and they all work most of the time.

I can't say I've wished for a screen when supercharging though. I can view everything I need to know on the app or the car.

The only thing a screen is good for is seeing the difference between energy from the station vs. energy delivered to the battery so you can calculate losses when charging.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Agreed, Electrek's recent integration of comments into the article is just lazy journalism, filling the page with unverified trash.

The whole "screen is a maintenance nightmare" comment doesn't seem to affect gas stations or any retail store. All of them have screens to prompt the buyer and provide information about the transaction and they all work most of the time.

I can't say I've wished for a screen when supercharging though. I can view everything I need to know on the app or the car.

I think the comment is because at public charge stations, the screens are commonly broken and they are required to finish the transaction (I don't believe you can even do the session via app or call if the screen is broken). The gas station and retail store comparison is different given there is an employee there (so easy for them to keep track of broken machines), plus you can pay with other ways (like walking into the store or paying at a different register).

While I threw out the central kiosk idea, the actual requirements may not necessarily allow that (they may require one per stall).

 

[SVMike]

The point of having a screen for non-Tesla cars is pretty simple. You have an EV and you drive up and want to charge. You have a credit card and no phone. First, how do you know the price? Second, you have to pick a station and tap or swipe a card.
One could argue that you can do all this on a phone. But what if you don't have a phone or there is no service.
Or there is service but not enough bandwidth to download a new app.
Remember, we want EV chargers in all the out of the way places too.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The point of having a screen for non-Tesla cars is pretty simple. You have an EV and you drive up and want to charge. You have a credit card and no phone. First, how do you know the price? Second, you have to pick a station and tap or swipe a card.
One could argue that you can do all this on a phone. But what if you don't have a phone or there is no service.
Or there is service but not enough bandwidth to download a new app.
Remember, we want EV chargers in all the out of the way places too.

The other benefit of a display is at a small site with a wait where you might want to know how long it'll take until the current vehicle is done.
This happened to me at a charge in St Stephen, NB. Thanks to the display I was able to see that the current car had stopped charging because it was fully charged so I unplugged them and plugged in.

 

[brainhouston]

The point of having a screen for non-Tesla cars is pretty simple. You have an EV and you drive up and want to charge. You have a credit card and no phone. First, how do you know the price? Second, you have to pick a station and tap or swipe a card.
One could argue that you can do all this on a phone. But what if you don't have a phone or there is no service.
Or there is service but not enough bandwidth to download a new app.
Remember, we want EV chargers in all the out of the way places too.

Don't think thats a valid point...
Tesla cars need service to bill you
Has anyone ever charged with no service on MCU? I don't think it will work even on Tesla cars...
You can always install the app before you got on a trip

 

[Blucenturion]

Tesla Refuses $6.4M in Funding from California to Build Superchargers in the State

Tesla refused $6.4 million in funding to build four large Superchargers in California that can offer 428 stalls. The state's requirements for payment system integration do not match Tesla's more streamlined way of working.

www.tesmanian.com

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Don't think thats a valid point...
Tesla cars need service to bill you
Has anyone ever charged with no service on MCU? I don't think it will work even on Tesla cars...
You can always install the app before you got on a trip

California is thinking ahead.

It wants all cars to be electric without forcing people to have cell service.
It also wants people to be able clearly to see what the price ahead of time.

It's completely reasonable.

It's also completely reasonable that Tesla doesn't want to be handle all cases and refused the funding.

 

[derotam]

The point of having a screen for non-Tesla cars is pretty simple. You have an EV and you drive up and want to charge. You have a credit card and no phone. First, how do you know the price? Second, you have to pick a station and tap or swipe a card.
One could argue that you can do all this on a phone. But what if you don't have a phone or there is no service.
Or there is service but not enough bandwidth to download a new app.
Remember, we want EV chargers in all the out of the way places too.

While I agree in part, the issue is that everything is APP based now. Look at paid street parking, even paid parking lot parking. Tons of places now force you to log into an app in order to pay for your parking, with no other option. Look at SAM's gas stations...all you need is the app with CC info, and scan a QR code on the pump...other than the weights and measures requirements for showing exactly how much gas was dispensed, there isn't a need for a screen.

 

[dho112]

Personally, I LOVE that Elon walked away from this deal.

I see enough fistfights and other bad behavior in airplane travel.

Can you IMAGINE the potential violent chaos of arriving at a crowded supercharger only to have 3 stalls blocked by a Ford Lightning charging to 100% and parked sideways because the cable isn’t long enough?!

 

[STS-134]

California is thinking ahead.

It wants all cars to be electric without forcing people to have cell service.
It also wants people to be able clearly to see what the price ahead of time.

I'd like to have a word with the CPUC on that one. I knew what the natural gas prices were because I have a dual fuel heating system and check the PG&E tariffs every month to find the crossover point as far as heating costs go, but I don't think 90%+ of consumers knew what was about to hit them when December rolled around.

And speaking of the CPUC and the power grid, I can see a world in which even a display on a kiosk or on the charging equipment isn't enough, because pricing changes dynamically and can change while you are charging. Only a smartphone is going to be able to give you updates on the changing pricing while you are eating dinner or shopping or doing whatever you're doing while the vehicle is charging.

Personally, I LOVE that Elon walked away from this deal.

I see enough fistfights and other bad behavior in airplane travel.

Can you IMAGINE the potential violent chaos of arriving at a crowded supercharger only to have 3 stalls blocked by a Ford Lightning charging to 100% and parked sideways because the cable isn’t long enough?!

Tesla never said they weren't opening superchargers to CCS vehicles, just that they aren't taking government money to do it. They can compensate by charging an even higher rate for non-Tesla vehicles.

 

[MP3Mike]

This makes me think that is likely that Tesla won't go after a portion of the $5.5B NEVI funding either. (Though I don't think it requires screens/credit card readers, it does require a lot of other items like opening their live stall usage data and enabling Plug&Charge by next year, which it seems would require a redesign of the MagicDock, so the CCS adapter could be released without using the Telsa app.)

 

[Genie]

I used to fuel fleet trucks at card-lock stations (use a card and pin#). These are unmanned 24/7 stations that have found a way to have dependable card readers, not as simple as Superchargers but pretty easy.