Tesla Wall Connector Charging Non-Tesla Vehicles? (Australia)

[GReeeeN]

Hello,

We are looking to have a Tesla Wall Connector installed at our family house to be used by myself and other family members, with also the possibility of being used by non-Tesla vehicles.

I have recently ordered a model 3 which will work nicely with the charger, although my parents are looking at getting a Huyundai Ionic as their family commute car (or something similar with type 2 charging).

Does the current Gen 2 Tesla wall connector sold by Tesla Australia have the ability to charge non-Tesla vehicles that use Type 2? (Which seems to becoming the industry standard

I asked Tesla online web chat and they said if the vehicle supports type 2 then it shouldn’t be a problem, even if it’s not a Tesla, and that only the supercharging network is locked to Tesla cars. I’ve heard some people say the DIM needs to be set to legacy mode for this to actually work, and this was something that was removed from the recent Tesla Wall Connectors?

Does anyone have any experience using their Tesla wall connector on non-Tesla vehicles?, as the 11KW Universal Chargers (EO) appear to be the only other option and they are more than double the price.

Thanks

 

[moa999]

See this recent thread. Probably not

Is it easy to identify if my Tesla Wall connector can charge other EVs?

Hi, I've read in other threads older Tesla Wall Connectors have a legacy mode which supports non-Tesla EVs. We got ours with Sept 2019 delivery. I'm not sure if that's enough to know if it will have legacy mode, or if there's something else to ID if it will do the job. Hopefully it will be...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Vostok]

Does anyone have any experience using their Tesla wall connector on non-Tesla vehicles?, as the 11KW Universal Chargers (EO) appear to be the only other option and they are more than double the price.

Interesting question but unfortunately I don’t know. It should work unless the Tesla HPWC has been specifically designed to not allow this (e.g. there is no longer a ”legacy” mode). The other thread referenced above doesn’t sound promising.

The simplest solution is to have an accessible outdoor/garage 15A socket, and tell EV visitors to bring their own car’s EVSE with them when they visit. Yes, that’s only 3.6 kW charging (max) vs. 11 kW, but it’s better than nothing.

I have a Nissan Leaf and Model 3 but haven’t tried charging the Leaf off the Tesla HPWC because I don’t have the required adaptor. I bought a Type-1 to Type-2 (J-1772 to Mennekes) adaptor which I keep in the sub-boot of the Tesla just in case I ever find myself needing a charge in the presence of tethered J-1772 chargers. But not the reverse for the Leaf because we never road trip in it, and only ever charge it at home.

Maybe I should get one in case the supplied Leaf EVSE ever fails (I keep it permanently plugged-in in the garage, and don’t keep it in the car) and I need to charge it using the HPWC or the Tesla mobile connector. But if it doesn’t work then I’ve blown 200 bucks

 

[Webeevdrivers]

A guy bought our old adapter just for that reason. Works fine. He also has a three and a leaf.

We are now a single car family but we still have two stations. One in the garage and one out. The outside is a J1772 so I have it covered if friends or family come to visit with a non Tesla car.

 

[GReeeeN]

Seems all like a lot of mixed responses. Maybe I will pressure a Tesla rep a little more to find out some more details.

My last online chat with Tesla simply just said if the car is type 2, then it will work, but he was in sales.

Maybe they weren’t aware it was phased out of the newer wall connectors....

 

[Sir Surfalot]

Does the current Gen 2 Tesla wall connector sold by Tesla Australia have the ability to charge non-Tesla vehicles that use Type 2? (Which seems to becoming the industry standard

We have two plug-in cars, the Tesla and a Porsche Cayenne PHEV (which has a J1772 (Type 1) connector). I have a Type-1-to-2 adapter cable, so I can charge the Tesla from a couple of local J1772 shopping centre chargers BUT I don't have a Type-2-to-1 one; otherwise I could test for you charging the Porsche from our Tesla wall charger (current version, just installed a month or so ago). If I can find/borrow one I'll give it a test and post back. I just haven't ever needed one enough to spend $250 on it.

 

[GReeeeN]

I have a Type-1-to-2 adapter cable, so I can charge the Tesla from a couple of local J1772 shopping centre chargers BUT I don't have a Type-2-to-1 one; otherwise I could test for you charging the Porsche from our Tesla wall charger (current version, just installed a month or so ago). If I can find/borrow one I'll give it a test and post back. I just haven't ever needed one enough to spend $250 on it.

Yeah completely understand, it appears a number of users with a type 2 to type 1 adapter and a Tesla wall connector seem to have it working more times then not.

It’s just those that try to use it with the wall connector trying to charge a type 2 car have more issues.

Maybe because the adapter used somehow blocks communication with the charger telling it if it’s a Tesla car or not, as opposed to plugging the wall connector into a type 2 car directly where the non-Tesla car can directly communicate with the wall connector if it’s not a Tesla.

 

[cafz]

Maybe because the adapter used somehow blocks communication with the charger telling it if it’s a Tesla car or not, as opposed to plugging the wall connector into a type 2 car directly where the non-Tesla car can directly communicate with the wall connector if it’s not a Tesla.

That's not how it works - the "legacy mode" is plain J1772 pilot pin signalling, which doesn't have the capability to communicate anything more complicated in the car-to-charger direction than "car connected" and "energise the power pins".

The charger doesn't specifically look for non-Tesla cars and block them - what it does is try communicating across the pilot pin using a Tesla-specific single-wire CAN protocol (that is fully two way, and allows for things like the car sending a firmware update to the charger). If it doesn't get any SWCAN communication after 30 seconds, it reverts to the old J1772 protocol.

 

[GReeeeN]

That's not how it works - the "legacy mode" is plain J1772 pilot pin signalling, which doesn't have the capability to communicate anything more complicated in the car-to-charger direction than "car connected" and "energise the power pins".

The charger doesn't specifically look for non-Tesla cars and block them - what it does is try communicating across the pilot pin using a Tesla-specific single-wire CAN protocol (that is fully two way, and allows for things like the car sending a firmware update to the charger). If it doesn't get any SWCAN communication after 30 seconds, it reverts to the old J1772 protocol.

Thanks for the explanation, that makes more sense.

So in theory what’s stopping the Tesla Wall Connector from charging any type 2 car?

If it doesn’t receive the SWCAN communication, shouldn’t it start charging any type 2 by reverting to J1772 protocol after the 30 seconds?, or is this reverting back to J1772 actually the “legacy mode” earlier wall chargers can take advantage of.

 

[Craig 128]

So in theory what’s stopping the Tesla Wall Connector from charging any type 2 car?

I'm glad you say in theory - so I can speculate here. . .

I've been playing around with the UMC and TWC with a J1772 EVCC (EV Charge Controller). My TWC is a later version that refuses to charge my Father's Kona EV. My UMC works fine with the Kona.

What I have noticed is the portable Tesla UMC (that works with the Kona) will

1. Request digital communications (5% duty cycle) for 3 seconds,
2. followed by no PWM signal for 3 seconds
3. and then advertise the correct duty cycle - i.e ~ 13% PWM for 8A.

So approximately 6 seconds after connection, you should have the correctly advertised charge rate using legacy J1772/IEC61851 PWM signaling.

When I was first playing with the TWC, I though it exhibited exactly the same behavior - reverting back to advertising the correct duty cycle. BUT, I had the PP (Prox Pilot/Plug Present) disconnected (high impedance).

When I correctly connect the PP line, the TWC will not switch out of requesting digital comms (i.e. it remains with a 5% duty cycle indefinitely).

I'm starting to think its just an unintentional software bug. The intention is there for it to fall back to 'legacy' J1772/IEC61851.

I'm also not quite sure why the PP line goes back to the TWC circuit board. If you look at IEC61851, normally PP doesn't travel down the cable. From the vehicle it terminates in the plug via a resistor. I do know, however, if it is disconnected, SWCAN mode will not work, so after the TWC switches to SWCAN it must be checking the PP line.

 

[Shallowal]

I'm glad you say in theory - so I can speculate here. . .

I've been playing around with the UMC and TWC with a J1772 EVCC (EV Charge Controller). My TWC is a later version that refuses to charge my Father's Kona EV. My UMC works fine with the Kona.

What I have noticed is the portable Tesla UMC (that works with the Kona) will

1. Request digital communications (5% duty cycle) for 3 seconds,
2. followed by no PWM signal for 3 seconds
3. and then advertise the correct duty cycle - i.e ~ 13% PWM for 8A.

So approximately 6 seconds after connection, you should have the correctly advertised charge rate using legacy J1772/IEC61851 PWM signaling.

When I was first playing with the TWC, I though it exhibited exactly the same behavior - reverting back to advertising the correct duty cycle. BUT, I had the PP (Prox Pilot/Plug Present) disconnected (high impedance).

When I correctly connect the PP line, the TWC will not switch out of requesting digital comms (i.e. it remains with a 5% duty cycle indefinitely).

I'm starting to think its just an unintentional software bug. The intention is there for it to fall back to 'legacy' J1772/IEC61851.

I'm also not quite sure why the PP line goes back to the TWC circuit board. If you look at IEC61851, normally PP doesn't travel down the cable. From the vehicle it terminates in the plug via a resistor. I do know, however, if it is disconnected, SWCAN mode will not work, so after the TWC switches to SWCAN it must be checking the PP line.

So if you "correctly" terminate the PP line and disconnect the PP feed to the TWC, does the TWC then charge the Kona?.

 

[aegidius]

Have read elsewhere (more info in this thread) that the Tesla wall connectors have model numbers ending in 00, 01, 02 or 07. The 00/01 are the older ones that can be set into legacy mode, but the newer ones can't.

 

[cafz]

When I correctly connect the PP line, the TWC will not switch out of requesting digital comms (i.e. it remains with a 5% duty cycle indefinitely).

I think this might explain why a Type 2 - Type 1 adaptor works more often than a direct Type 2 connection does - perhaps on some of those adaptors the PP line is terminated within the adaptor itself?

 

[moa999]

At least appears in the US that people have made special adapters for Gen2 and Gen3 chargers

TeslaTap 50 AMP - HIGH POWER

Not sure how common the US/Global HPWCs are, but maybe the operator of this site might be able to provide more insights.

 

[moa999]

Indeed they seem to sell a separate bypass circuit by itself.

Bypass Circuit (COFFEE BEAN)

AND actually have a UK TYpe2-2 model.
Not cheap at US$300 (and out of stock).

But I guess cheaper than a new wall unit.

TeslaTap MINI 3-Phase

 

[Craig 128]

So if you "correctly" terminate the PP line and disconnect the PP feed to the TWC, does the TWC then charge the Kona?.

Sorry, only got a chance today to try it.

Unfortunately, no go with the Kona.

I didn't have an oscilloscope on me, so I don't know what sequence of events happened. I'll see if I can make that happen, this week.

 

[KalJoMoS]

@GReeeeN , this discussion here might help you in your quest.

 

[moa999]

Interesting in this continuing discussion this brand new commercial install in Sydney

Blacktown Westpoint Shopping Centre | Blacktown, NSW | EV Station

Chargefox have confirmed the chargers have been removed from the Chargefox network. Only the Tesla chargers work. L2 and L3 each have 2 Tethered Type 2 EVLink chargers and 2 Tesla Destination chargers in legacy mode (in separate listing). Best entrance via Alpha St. Chargers located on Level 2...

www.plugshare.com

Which is clearly recent Gen2 (side insert and longer cable)

Yet the poster says it works with his Type 2 BMW i3.

 

[Onshore]

Does the wall charger get firmware updates?

 

[cafz]

Does the wall charger get firmware updates?

The Gen 2 has the ability to receive firmware updates from cars that connect to it. I'm not sure if they've ever actually distributed one like this, or how you'd notice if your HPWC firmware was updated, though.

The Gen 3 can get them over WiFi (and, further to this thread topic, apparently the Gen 3 explicitly has an option in the setup application to enable non-Tesla charging).