Tesla: we need more control over our PowerWalls

[mw963]

I've just had the chance to have a go at Tesla via a survey that came through following installation of our Powerwall a few weeks ago. Whilst I praised the installation and hardware, I told them precisely what I think of the app and of the lack of control over charging levels overnight. I doubt any good will come of it, but I did refer them to this thread in the hope someone takes some notice.

I also told them that I had counseled the people who have come to have a look at our set up to avoid purchasing a Telsa Powerwall system until they do something about the charging situation. I'm still having to wake up every night and override decisions being made, which is hopeless when one has shelled out so much money.

Haven't yet got the Raspberry Pi app working, but hope to do so shortly.

How is everyone else in Britain getting on? (with apologies to our American readers of course!).

 

[mw963]

After two days of sunshine on Thursday and Friday our Powerwall has started showing its algorithmic shortcomings again, although I "got to it" during Friday and Saturday nights to force it to charge fully, last night I woke at 06.00 to find that it had stopped charging at 75%. I managed to get another 10% into it in the final half hour of cheap rate electricity, but for the first 15 minutes it would only charge at 1.7 kW, before finally deigning to put on a sprint for the last 13 minutes at 5 kW.

Just another example of the totally unfit-for-purpose software foisted on us by a company that is deaf to criticism, constructive or otherwise.

 

[Ampster]

Just another example of the totally unfit-for-purpose software foisted on us by a company that is deaf to criticism, constructive or otherwise.

I don't own a Powerwall but I am envious of many of the features that have been added since the Powerwall was introduced in 2015. I went to the initial presentation in Hawthorne and was inspired to DIY my own. That is always an alternative if you think you can do it better.
What specific features do you want or need? Have you found them in the battery offerings from Generac, LG Chem, BYD, Enphase, Solaredge or others? I understand Tesla does read these forums and a constructive dialogue might result in enhancements.

 

[Redhill_qik]

After two days of sunshine on Thursday and Friday our Powerwall has started showing its algorithmic shortcomings again, although I "got to it" during Friday and Saturday nights to force it to charge fully, last night I woke at 06.00 to find that it had stopped charging at 75%. I managed to get another 10% into it in the final half hour of cheap rate electricity, but for the first 15 minutes it would only charge at 1.7 kW, before finally deigning to put on a sprint for the last 13 minutes at 5 kW.

Just another example of the totally unfit-for-purpose software foisted on us by a company that is deaf to criticism, constructive or otherwise.

I am worried that the lack of user control is a top down directive "Almost all input is error. Car should do the right thing automatically.", Elon Musk.

 

[ptdusn]

I don't own a Powerwall but I am envious of many of the features that have been added since the Powerwall was introduced in 2015. I went to the initial presentation in Hawthorne and was inspired to DIY my own. That is always an alternative if you think you can do it better.
What specific features do you want or need? Have you found them in the battery offerings from Generac, LG Chem, BYD, Enphase, Solaredge or others? I understand Tesla does read these forums and a constructive dialogue might result in enhancements.

I have a 9.45kW system with 2 Powerwalls installed by Sunrun and have been using them in self-consumption mode only. I have been very happy with the performance except on the cloudy days we have had over the last 2 months. They went into storm watch last month due to a high wind advisory we had and I had to shut it off until after our peak period so as not to get nailed by the peak prices. Other than that brief period of charging from the grid, they charge from our panels in the day and discharge at night.

 

[mw963]

To add to my woes the Tesla app is now running so slowly on my phone that it's next to useless. It takes over a minute to load the current status, and trying to download each day's data is a nightmare if one leaves it for a couple of weeks and then tries to go back through the calendar, each day takes about 90 seconds to load, and sometimes what's sent as the data file in the email is that of another day. I've been going almost mad trying to do it.

I am now beyond angry with Tesla's European help centre, they are now ignoring my emails totally in spite of repeated requests for replies.

Does anyone else in Britain have the app running like a snail? I've tried it on various phones/tablets, the connection from Gateway to internet fibre router is by ethernet, the fibre runs at 70 Mbps/18 Mbps, and the phones/tablets are using the same router, so there is no excuse for the slow running other than a problem with the Tesla app.

I just wish I'd known all the trouble I'd have before buying, it really would have influenced my decision.

 

[mw963]

Another question for any other British users:

We've had plenty of opportunity with the recent storms to watch the performance of the Tesla Powerwall system during very short outages, and whilst it does keep the lights on it doesn't react sufficiently fast to prevent computers shutting down, satellite receivers going into standby, and a chorus of squeaks from such things as phones. Our installers said we wouldn't notice outages because the Tesla reacted within a single AC cycle, and in any case most of these power glitches have occurred when we've been running on the battery (rather than off the grid) during the day, and yet we get a noticeable glitch and the problems with equipment noted above.

Now I am grateful for the lights staying on, particularly last night in the early morning when there was a proper outage for an hour, but I wondered if our system was working correctly or whether any mains glitches should really be undetectable. If the latter then this gives me further ammunition to fire at the Dutch help centre.

 

[mspohr]

Another question for any other British users:

We've had plenty of opportunity with the recent storms to watch the performance of the Tesla Powerwall system during very short outages, and whilst it does keep the lights on it doesn't react sufficiently fast to prevent computers shutting down, satellite receivers going into standby, and a chorus of squeaks from such things as phones. Our installers said we wouldn't notice outages because the Tesla reacted within a single AC cycle, and in any case most of these power glitches have occurred when we've been running on the battery (rather than off the grid) during the day, and yet we get a noticeable glitch and the problems with equipment noted above.

Now I am grateful for the lights staying on, particularly last night in the early morning when there was a proper outage for an hour, but I wondered if our system was working correctly or whether any mains glitches should really be undetectable. If the latter then this gives me further ammunition to fire at the Dutch help centre.

I think these large inverters are a bit slower to respond than the small UPS devices. Even a >100ms delay can cause computers, etc. to shut down.
I have a few small UPSs on critical devices.

 

[mw963]

@ Ampster -​

Sorry, only just seen your reply. If you look back through this topic (at the British contributions) you'll see that we're all asking the same thing, namely an option for the user to control the forthcoming night's charge level before bedtime, so that by the end of the night the battery will have charged up to the user specified - rather than Tesla predicted - level. The Tesla algorithm seems to be designed for USA weather rather than the very changeable British weather.

I don't know whether the other systems give that sort of control to be honest, I have no way of finding out. But what I do know is that I've been met by a dismal brick wall of "we know better" from Tesla, and I'm beginning to think the only hope is to write direct to Musk, no one in Europe seems prepared to pass on our comments to anyone who can get things done your side of the Atlantic.

 

[mw963]

@ Redhill_qik​

I think you've hit the nail on the head. In my case it's one control freak (Musk) meeting another (me). It's not a happy situation. But I am staggered that our constructive requests - all wanting the same thing - are being brushed aside. One had hoped that a company that one had assumed was innovative would be listening to this sort of request.

 

[mw963]

@ mspohr​

Thanks - that's interesting. There's nothing critical in this house that really needs UPS protection, and your explanation is useful to know. Having what is a relatively quick change over suffices, and with the recent storms in Europe it's been a comfort to know that the Powerwall is there. I was simply wondering whether - given the problems with the slow running app - whether there was a connection between the various annoyances that I have with the installation.

Renewed thanks to all who have replied, and renewed apologies for not responding sooner.

 

[mspohr]

@ Redhill_qik​

I think you've hit the nail on the head. In my case it's one control freak (Musk) meeting another (me). It's not a happy situation. But I am staggered that our constructive requests - all wanting the same thing - are being brushed aside. One had hoped that a company that one had assumed was innovative would be listening to this sort of request.

I think you have to consider that Musk has the opinion that all user input is error and that users should just let the machine make the decisions.
Of course, the machines at this stage are far from perfectly aligned with users, leading to issues.

 

[cali8484]

To add to my woes the Tesla app is now running so slowly on my phone that it's next to useless. It takes over a minute to load the current status, and trying to download each day's data is a nightmare if one leaves it for a couple of weeks and then tries to go back through the calendar, each day takes about 90 seconds to load, and sometimes what's sent as the data file in the email is that of another day. I've been going almost mad trying to do it.

I am now beyond angry with Tesla's European help centre, they are now ignoring my emails totally in spite of repeated requests for replies.

Does anyone else in Britain have the app running like a snail? I've tried it on various phones/tablets, the connection from Gateway to internet fibre router is by ethernet, the fibre runs at 70 Mbps/18 Mbps, and the phones/tablets are using the same router, so there is no excuse for the slow running other than a problem with the Tesla app.

I just wish I'd known all the trouble I'd have before buying, it really would have influenced my decision.

Unfortunately, your problem is inherent with cloud dependent access. Not to defend Tesla but this is a more widespread problem in general. Other vendors are implementing similar cloud dependent access and restricting/preventing owners from direct local access to the equipment they paid for and own in their own homes. Enphase is especially bad in silently updating equipment firmware without notice or owner's approval to remove features including direct local access without cloud dependency. A vendor by vendor approach is likely not the best general solution. I hope EU, being more progressive about owner/user privacy and control, can set an example by passing some laws to disallow vendors from providing only cloud dependent access.

 

[slcasner]

We've had plenty of opportunity with the recent storms to watch the performance of the Tesla Powerwall system during very short outages, and whilst it does keep the lights on it doesn't react sufficiently fast to prevent computers shutting down, satellite receivers going into standby, and a chorus of squeaks from such things as phones. Our installers said we wouldn't notice outages because the Tesla reacted within a single AC cycle, and in any case most of these power glitches have occurred when we've been running on the battery (rather than off the grid) during the day, and yet we get a noticeable glitch and the problems with equipment noted above.

It is surprising that you see the power glitch if the battery is discharging to power the home at the time of the outage. When the battery is in standby it takes longer to start discharging, but if it is already discharging there should not be any glitch.

 

[mw963]

Thanks for the further comments. I can quite see that a lot of customers do indeed desire a "set it and forget it" installation, and I suspect that the charging-decision algorithm does work a lot better in places like America where the weather is less inclined - as we say this side of the Atlantic - to turn on sixpence!

@ slcasner - thanks, I think I'm going to ring Tesla Europe later this week and have a proper go at them, given that they are totally ignoring my emails now. Your comment gives me a bit of ammunition, as you say it seems odd that it glitches when the house is already being powered by the battery rather than the grid. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[xWren]

Another question for any other British users:

We've had plenty of opportunity with the recent storms to watch the performance of the Tesla Powerwall system during very short outages, and whilst it does keep the lights on it doesn't react sufficiently fast to prevent computers shutting down, satellite receivers going into standby, and a chorus of squeaks from such things as phones. ...

Long outages too - the 3rd of the storms took the grid out here for 16 hours, so happy to have the Powerwall. Because we manage it manually (run in self consumption mode, setting power reserve percentage at start and end of off-peak period to facilitate charging based on our superior local knowledge of both weather conditions and domestic use) it was suitably charged to handle the situation.

My experience over many outages is same as yours, it does not react sufficiently fast to prevent devices shutting down. I guess that I was hoping too much that cutting over would be that seamless, but no one promised me it would.

 

[xWren]

I think you have to consider that Musk has the opinion that all user input is error and that users should just let the machine make the decisions.
Of course, the machines at this stage are far from perfectly aligned with users, leading to issues.

Does Elon Musk really think that a machine could ever accurately anticipate tomorrow's weather (solar generation) and my domestic usage? It is a different problem from driving a car on well delimited roads or launching a rocket, far more mathematically chaotic and unpredictable. The attitude that computer always knows best, and making everything dependent on cloud access are frankly a childish design errors. I thought Musk was smart.

To get somewhere near the accuracy that a mere human being can achieve the machine would need many more input parameters than just the power use/generation history. Maybe some parts of the world have stable weather (today's solar generation much like yesterday's) and robotic users (consuming power consistently), but that is not my location or life! It is a mistake to apply population level thinking to individuals.

As for cloud dependency, I notice that the Tesla servers are inaccessible for some hours at least twice a month (usually when you most need access), not to mention that severe power outages often impact internet and 4G access. Even if the masses want a "fire and forget" system, even if the cloud was magically accessible 24/7, even if that is how all competitors are designing things, having local control as a fallback seems more robust and versatile design strategy.

 

[xWren]

To add to my woes the Tesla app is now running so slowly on my phone that it's next to useless. It takes over a minute to load the current status, and trying to download each day's data is a nightmare if one leaves it for a couple of weeks and then tries to go back through the calendar, each day takes about 90 seconds to load, and sometimes what's sent as the data file in the email is that of another day. I've been going almost mad trying to do it.
...
Does anyone else in Britain have the app running like a snail? I've tried it on various phones/tablets, the connection from Gateway to internet fibre router is by ethernet, the fibre runs at 70 Mbps/18 Mbps, and the phones/tablets are using the same router, so there is no excuse for the slow running other than a problem with the Tesla app.

Yes the Android app is very slow to fetch data and display it even today's data, and frustrating to use . The UI is poorly designed too. I hate it.

 

[mspohr]

Does Elon Musk really think that a machine could ever accurately anticipate tomorrow's weather (solar generation) and my domestic usage? It is a different problem from driving a car on well delimited roads or launching a rocket, far more mathematically chaotic and unpredictable. The attitude that computer always knows best, and making everything dependent on cloud access are frankly a childish design errors. I thought Musk was smart.

To get somewhere near the accuracy that a mere human being can achieve the machine would need many more input parameters than just the power use/generation history. Maybe some parts of the world have stable weather (today's solar generation much like yesterday's) and robotic users (consuming power consistently), but that is not my location or life! It is a mistake to apply population level thinking to individuals.

As for cloud dependency, I notice that the Tesla servers are inaccessible for some hours at least twice a month (usually when you most need access), not to mention that severe power outages often impact internet and 4G access. Even if the masses want a "fire and forget" system, even if the cloud was magically accessible 24/7, even if that is how all competitors are designing things, having local control as a fallback seems more robust and versatile design strategy.

Well, yes, it is trivial for the Powerwall to estimate solar generation and your usage.
I do agree that there should be better local control for those who know better.

 

[RKCRLR]

Another question for any other British users:

We've had plenty of opportunity with the recent storms to watch the performance of the Tesla Powerwall system during very short outages, and whilst it does keep the lights on it doesn't react sufficiently fast to prevent computers shutting down, satellite receivers going into standby, and a chorus of squeaks from such things as phones. Our installers said we wouldn't notice outages because the Tesla reacted within a single AC cycle, and in any case most of these power glitches have occurred when we've been running on the battery (rather than off the grid) during the day, and yet we get a noticeable glitch and the problems with equipment noted above.

Now I am grateful for the lights staying on, particularly last night in the early morning when there was a proper outage for an hour, but I wondered if our system was working correctly or whether any mains glitches should really be undetectable. If the latter then this gives me further ammunition to fire at the Dutch help centre.

I've found that the quick changeover is worse for some devices. During an outage that lasts several seconds or more everything will reboot. However, some of my devices go into limbo and freeze during a quick blip and require a manual reboot.

Also, I've found that the lighter the load the quicker the changeover.