Tesla - where are my (HW2) auto rain sensing wipers?

[Canuck]

Actually they added a rain sensor on the $35k M3, But left it out on their flagship model. You cant fix stupid. To save what $30 they removed the sensor that was originally on the MS and decided to make it part of the camera system instead and us HW2 lose another feature.

I'm glad it doesn't have a traditional rain sensor like my Model S, and a lot of other manufacturers use. I guess if you don't get much rain, or no misty type rain, in which these sensors are basically useless, it's fine. But they don't work for me so I don't want it on my Model 3. Since we don't get the Model 3 until late 2018 in Canada I much prefer to take my chances on a camera system that will hopefully work in all types of precipitation, something that sensors have proven to me they can't do.

 

[lunitiks]

@lunitiks Are we sure Model 3 has a rain sensor? I know Model 3 has something that could be a rain sensor, but the so does Model S/X AP2... (Which as discussed may only be a light and humidity sensor.)

I'm pretty sure it hasn't. There's a microscopic chance that the infamous (thanks to myself) HVAC-sensor - you know, that little lens-thingy we see above the triple cam - is doing rain sensing, but most likely it's for sensing light. At least that seems to be the prevailing theory in lack of evidence of the contrary.

Discussed half to death in here (ps: the discussion picks up later in the thread too):
AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I'm pretty sure it hasn't. There's a microscopic chance that the infamous (thanks to myself) HVAC-sensor - you know, that little lens-thingy we see above the triple cam - is doing rain sensing, but most likely it's for sensing light. At least that seems to be the prevailing theory in lack of evidence of the contrary.

Discussed half to death in here (ps: the discussion picks up later in the thread too):
AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations?

There remains a small chance Model 3 "AP 2.5" has a different sensor than AP2 or even the now-"AP 2.1" too. Small chance...

 

[lunitiks]

I respectfully disagree about the 2.5 vs 2.1 lingo. Both for S and X, Tesla's wiring diagrams explicitly says "2.5". The 2.1 is something a spokesperson said to Electrek to downplay the upgrades. 2.5 is "2.1"

 

[tccartier]

FWIW. Works perfectly on my 2013 MS, patiently waiting for feature to be activated on my 2017 MS.

Same on my 2012 works great! Did it ever work on AP cars?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I respectfully disagree about the 2.5 vs 2.1 lingo. Both for S and X, Tesla's wiring diagrams explicitly says "2.5". The 2.1 is something a spokesperson said to Electrek to downplay the upgrades. 2.5 is "2.1"

I get that, and am not trying to dispute that (hence 2.1 in quotes), however my point is this: Model 3 obviously has a different hardware setup than HW 2.5 in Model S/X. The clearest thing is the new Intel-based central screen computer integrated into the setup, right? Interior camera another?

That different hardware setup on Model 3 could also include a new rear-view mirror plastic enclosure that a) has interior facing camera and b) could have a different outward pointing weather sensor compared to the "2.1/2.5" hardware on Model S/X. These could come to Model S/X in a future dash refresh.

Thoughts?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Same on my 2012 works great! Did it ever work on AP cars?

On AP1 yes, not on AP2 that has no rain sensor.

 

[lunitiks]

I get that, and am not trying to dispute that (hence 2.1 in quotes), however my point is this: Model 3 obviously has a different hardware setup than HW 2.5 in Model S/X. The clearest thing is the new Intel-based central screen computer integrated into the setup, right? Interior camera another?

That different hardware setup on Model 3 could also include a new rear-view mirror plastic enclosure that a) has interior facing camera and b) could have a different outward pointing weather sensor compared to the "2.1/2.5" hardware on Model S/X. These could come to Model S/X in a future dash refresh.

Thoughts?

Sure, the 3 has a lot of new HW, including the driver/cabin camera.

So we can't completely rule out a rain sensor. But I'd be (positively) surprised if it does, considering that the recent 2.5 HW for S and X doesn't seem to sport a dedicated rain sensor

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Sure, the 3 has a lot of new HW, including the driver/cabin camera.

So we can't completely rule out a rain sensor. But I'd be (positively) surprised if it does, considering that the recent 2.5 HW for S and X doesn't seem to sport a dedicated rain sensor

Agreed.

 

[CK_Stuggi]

I may respectfully disagree with everyone who says they don't want one and that it's not a relevant feature.
As I explained it is safety relevant for the camera functions of the AP.
And if you have it you can decide not to use it, but if you don't have it to begin with...
For what it's worth, mine worked excellently on my AP1 car. And it's not like the sensor costs 30 bucks (that's for a retrofit third party system!), more like sub-10$ (if not <1$) OEM.
There's no serious way anyone can make me believe a camera-based solution is cheaper and more affordable than a cheap dedicated sensor.
Considering the the front cameras are all different focal lengths, the resolution to compare overlapping segments of the images is too crude from one focal length to the next, so comparisons get harder or impossible.

 

[whitex]

I may respectfully disagree with everyone who says they don't want one and that it's not a relevant feature.

Ignore that. It is a very common argument from Tesla fanatic defenders - when Tesla doesn't deliver on some promises, they will insist that this is better, because they actually prefer it that way. I don't even bother replying to those - that just invites more posts how great it is that Tesla didn't deliver on what they promised.

As I explained it is safety relevant for the camera functions of the AP.
And if you have it you can decide not to use it, but if you don't have it to begin with...
For what it's worth, mine worked excellently on my AP1 car. And it's not like the sensor costs 30 bucks (that's for a retrofit third party system!), more like sub-10$ (if not <1$) OEM.
There's no serious way anyone can make me believe a camera-based solution is cheaper and more affordable than a cheap dedicated sensor.
Considering the the front cameras are all different focal lengths, the resolution to compare overlapping segments of the images is too crude from one focal length to the next, so comparisons get harder or impossible.

The argument someone (I strongly suspect Elon) must have made is that the new AP2 system will be able to detect the amount of rain, hence why not save $10 per car, especially considering they were thinking Model 3 volumes, so $10 per car saves them $10M per year. Sadly, this ended up a lot harder than they expected, or even impossible at all - like the BSM using ultrasonics Elon was boasting about when AP1 came out - there is a reason why all the other guys use radar based BSM, but Elon thought he knew better, he was wrong - BSM sucks using only ultrasonics as those sensors are not at all well suited to be used at high speed and/or rain. Oh, by the time you read this I'm sure there will be a few posts from the usual suspects how well BSM works for them, or how it is an unnecessary system because it's not a big deal to just turn your head to check, or some will claim it's a good thing because it enforces people checking their blind spots manually.

 

[daktari]

I am just waiting for a recall to retrofit a proper rain sensor in a new front camera housing. I guess they already know this would be a cheaper solution, but developer hubris don't let them carry on with it.

A fun idea, if this is not ready when EM does his autonomous transcontinental trip, why not get 5 minutes of international fame with a water hose along the way?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The solution: Teslas will operate wipers all the time.

 

[lunitiks]

The solution: Teslas will operate wipers all the time.

 

[CK_Stuggi]

A delivery video of the Model 3. Customer asks about automatic wipers @ minute 1, no answer. But definitely no setting. What in the world is Tesla thinking!?

 

[thegruf]

What in the world is Tesla thinking!?

"well at least the wiper issue is stopping the punters whinging about lack of illuminated vanity mirrors - oh wait which berk included them on the model 3 - call the MS dev team and give them a heads up quick ..."

 

[VT_EE]

A delivery video of the Model 3. Customer asks about automatic wipers @ minute 1, no answer. But definitely no setting. What in the world is Tesla thinking!?

The M3 requires you to go into the screen menu to turn on the wipers. I have to believe they are close to getting the rain sensors working given this, otherwise we have a problem. Using the screen for wiper control is only practical if there are auto wipers so you don't have to go digging for the setting often. At least the MS has a convenient stalk to use.

 

[CK_Stuggi]

"well at least the wiper issue is stopping the punters whinging about lack of illuminated vanity mirrors - oh wait which berk included them on the model 3 - call the MS dev team and give them a heads up quick ..."

These were never promised and never part of the Model S to begin with. Compare apples to apples and stay on topic please.

Supposedly, based solely on a comment under the above video there's also the same left stalk to activate wipers on the Model 3 as on the Model S.
So I wouldn't get my hopes up too high.

 

[futurem3owner]

The M3 requires you to go into the screen menu to turn on the wipers.

 

[VT_EE]

View attachment 249569

Curious, I wonder why they never mention this stalk in the video. I'm guessing you need the menu to change the wiper speed but can use the stalk button to turn them on and activate the washer. Very strange design.