I got one: Hourly government workers who get paid by the hour and are also required to drive new fleet EVs. The slower the charge, the better for them. (Ever see those township or local municipal trucks driving around under the speed limit in your area? Happens in the USA but put government workers into EVs and require them to charge at these chargepoints and anything goes.)
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I got one: Hourly government workers who get paid by the hour and are also required to drive new fleet EVs. The slower the charge, the better for them. (Ever see those township or local municipal trucks driving around under the speed limit in your area? Happens in the USA but put government workers into EVs and require them to charge at these chargepoints and anything goes.)
Those are old specs from January. They say 50 kW but they also say 90 miles in 30 minutes and 80% (160 miles?) in an hour. Those claims work out to an average of about 45 kW for the 80% charge and 50 kW for the 30 minute charge. Presumably the peak could be somewhat higher but they haven't given that yet.
They said not much later that the car has been validated for charging at faster rates and they had not yet decided on a final peak rate and charging curve yet.
It's even possible, though perhaps not likely, that the Bolt will exceed 200A charging when hooked up to a faster "150 kW" station. For example, the Kia Soul is normally limited to 125A by the CHAdeMO standard but when plugged into an experimental 200A charger it is willing to charge at near 175A.
CCS today is specification limited to 200A although most chargers share a CHAdeMO plug and are design limited to CHAdeMO's 125A. When a Bolt is plugged into a future 240A, 300A, or 350A station following the new CCS specifications expected to be finalized during the next year will the Bolt exceed 200A? We probably won't know until someone tries.
GM should be dropping updated official Bolt EV specs any day now but they will probably still reflect today's 200A CCS limit.
Those European charging stations are mostly supporting both CHAdeMO and CCS, I think. The same will likely be true in the US for a number of years while CHAdeMO cars are on the road.
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It is generally expensive (30-60ct/kWh), although some have subscription models. For example FastNed offers all-you-can-charge for 99EUR/month. Most DC charging stations allow for both CCS and CHAdeMO but I think the future is going to be CCS.
Tesla's SCs are free and probably marginal fee for model 3. Every other will cost something. Don't underestimate people's cheapness. People already driving out of way to charge at tesla's SC vs. at home.
Gigafactory still major advantage for Tesla and hurddle for all other mass production manufactures. No company including Tesla can build mass EV today but this is about to change for Tesla.
Design/ features/safety still an advantage for tesla as they refuse to build bad cars. Can't be said for 90% of manufactures.
In the USA I believe the direct sale is and can be the biggest advantage. 15-20% cut to the middleman is a lot of many to reinvest. And dealing with stealership RIP.
I think other companies are underestimating Musk's ability and drive to perfect building the machine to build machines. Vertical integration of hardware and software is back and so is the ability to control all aspect of the car.
As the recent transition to Tesla vs Tesla Motors should tell you it's not just a car company anymore.
Gigafactory still major advantage for Tesla and hurddle for all other mass production manufactures. No company including Tesla can build mass EV today but this is about to change for Tesla.
Design/ features/safety still an advantage for tesla as they refuse to build bad cars. Can't be said for 90% of manufactures.
In the USA I believe the direct sale is and can be the biggest advantage. 15-20% cut to the middleman is a lot of many to reinvest. And dealing with stealership RIP.
I think other companies are underestimating Musk's ability and drive to perfect building the machine to build machines. Vertical integration of hardware and software is back and so is the ability to control all aspect of the car.
As the recent transition to Tesla vs Tesla Motors should tell you it's not just a car company anymore.
adiggs
Well-Known Member
There's also no reason to overestimate people's cheapness. The statement, as written, is absolutely true. Without some idea / evidence of the magnitude, we are also unable to judge the size of the issue, and therefore decide whether it's an actual problem, or just something that sounds scary.
One extreme example - if 1 person goes out of their way to charge at a SC instead of at home, one time per week, then this is true. And of course meaningless. If 90% of owners do so weekly, then this is a business model problem for TSLA. Reality is somewhere in between, probably, and without the magnitude we're all just guessing when we incorporate the issue into our decision making.
My guess, is that this is a minor issue. Then again, I drive a Roadster and have little reason to visit a Supercharger, and that bias colors my perception of things, possibly to my detriment. Evidence of the magnitude of the occurrence of the issue would be hugely valuable and help shape my perception of whether this is a problem or not, and would help me make an investing decision.
Do you have anything you can point to that suggests magnitude?
If I may add, most people who own Tesla commute to work. A lot of companies are already providing free/subsidized charging at work. It will only increase over time. And, soon we might see govt mandating workplace car charging as a required employee benefit.
Most cheap types that I know charge at work.
Mario Kadastik
Active Member
I think most of the so called 150kW stations are in fact 3x50kW stations with three plugs each able to do 150kW. I doubt there are too many stations that actually run 100+ kW today.
The Swiss stations can do 150kW to one car or dynamically schedule down to 50kW when three cars are charging at the same time. It is very similar to Tesla's supercharging model.
There is lots of historical examples about existing companies not making the switch to new technologies and failing. If you are interested, there is a book that talks about it The Innovator's Dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . I wouldn't be surprised to see most of the current ICE market leaders fall, as the world changes. Being first at true EV now, is very valuable.
It appears that the limit to one car, according to the link provided in your post, is 120kW:
adiggs
Well-Known Member
I wonder if @ChadS or others have information on company provided free / subsidized charging. How commonly is that available in the US? Is that more common in California than elsewhere?
My personal / anecdotal experience is that my employer does provide workplace charging opportunities. We also pay the same $/kwh as I would be paying at home in my garage (or effectively the same - it might be .10 instead of .11). But I'm also not in California and have much lower $/kwh electricity here.
I would expect a significant fraction of drivers to fill up at work if it's free / cheaper to fill up at work, whether they drive electric or gas vehicles. My assumption / guess is that workplace charging is at most, prevalent among larger companies, and rare among small companies. As a population, I expect that most Tesla owners lack workplace charging options, much less having free / subsidized workplace charging available.
But that's my guess.
Workplace charging is clearly a possible solution to the problem of how one charges their car and live in an apartment complex with no or limited charging opportunities. Especially for those living in an apartment complex that lacks sufficient parking for everybody to have a car, much less a spot for everybody to charge.
Today I don't see much of a societal level move to implementing infrastructure at that level, but I'm open to the idea it's happening and I just haven't seen information about it. I don't see much appetite for a government mandate that companies provide the benefit, though I can readily imagine a subset of companies seeing this as a relatively cheap mechanism to provide a valuable benefit and establish their environment cred.
The media release from GO FAST makes it clearer that 150kW goes to one car. I believe the confusing graphics are because it is really an exercise in futility, there is no car that can take that power. Not even a Tesla since the adapter sadly limits to 50kW. ABB has a charging system for buses that goes up to 450 kW currently in use in Luxembourg and another in planning phase in Belgium.
Chopr147
Active Member
I don't really need the SC or a work charger for everyday usage, home charger will be sufficient. But I did speak to the mayor of our small village regarding this and he plans on putting one or two chargers in. Just looking for how to pay for it 
So, little by little this whole EV thing is moving forward
So, little by little this whole EV thing is moving forward This would solve the problems for people that live in apartments/condos if the employer see this as a competive advantage. Hope to see more companies do this. I wouldn't imagine this to be popular in high density Mega cities.
it is very fair if businesses offered L1 charging to its employees for free. A 40 mile recharge (an average commute length) - is about $1 - less than a heavy coffee drinker consumers per day of resources. What isn't happening is the CapEx at businesses who lease their buildings and don't want to "buy" something that is not wrapped into the lease - so they want the landlord to install stuff and that's harder to pull off in some cases or many states. California is starting to legislate requirements in some areas (such as Palo Alto new construction of homes) to install charging capabilities.
I live in an apartment and my only car is a model S. I have a pretty typical situation I think. My employer does offer L2 chargers. There are a lot of volt's and leafs and the model S' are starting to show up. Demand is high on those. My apartment building has 2 L2 spots, not nearly enough. But my neighborhood has 4 pay spots as well, and I live 30 miles from a SC. So I just bounce around, charging when I can, driving to the SC twice a year when bad luck strikes and availability becomes a problem. I thought it would be a bigger pain than it is, but really it has become second nature now.
Very California-centric thinking. It's not like this anywhere but on the west coast.
Lol. I literally posted the opposite in the previous post. I am Also in Austin and have charging options that Californians would dream of.
BUT, Austin is unusual for sure. I also live downtown where L2 charging options are most concentrated.
One curiosity of note. The plug I use MOST OFTEN is a 110 plug in the corner of my work's parking garage. It is a lousy 2miles/hr of charging but it compensates for that day's commute. Electricity is everywhere.
Dynastar
Member
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