-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
I would EASILY give up that space to get AWD. Add 100-120kwh batteries + ACC, bi-Xenon, sport seats and hitch option, and you have definately a winner!
I didn't listen to the conference call but I'm hoping "variants" is different than "more options". I'm really hoping Tesla decides to come out with a wagon Model S for the U.S. and Europe. I know wagons are popular in Europe and lots of car enthusiasts (on both sides of the pond) are fond of them as well.
That being said, aside from AWD and ACC I can not think of any options I'd like to see on Model S that it doesn't already have.
That being said, aside from AWD and ACC I can not think of any options I'd like to see on Model S that it doesn't already have.
NigelM
Recovering Member
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Because the profit (both absolute dollars and margin percentage) is higher up the line. Tesla's main problem at the moment isn't selling more cars, it's getting as much profit out of each one of the limited number of cars it can make.
What I think happened is Tesla has seen how many general production reservation holders have surprisingly opted for 85kWh and Performance variants and realized there's more of a market at $100k+ for the car than they had realized.
My prediction is they find ways to offer $110k - $120k variants. 100+ kWh battery and Super Performance options come to mind. We already know they've been testing sportier suspension setups.
AWD would be great, but I don't see it happening given the need to recertify crash tests. That's a lot of metal to add to the crumple zone. I'd love to be proven wrong though.
And since it's California, the wagon would have real wood trim!
"and we call it a Woodie" - Beach Boys
A fleet version (more legroom and headroom in back, basic option set like cheaper wheels/tires, etc.) would make a lot of economic sense once they can further scale production and as a hedge if their reservations don't keep growing at the same rate. Lower ASP but a standard vehicle that would reduce mfg costs. Others have done the math on gas costs - they could own the black car/taxi market given TCO (total cost of ownership) concerns.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Since "adding options" has been mentioned a few times in this thread: Separately from "variants", Elon also mentioned in the Q&A session today that customers are surprisingly often choosing the options. So they are in fact thinking about adding more options as a general strategy, and he mentioned "retrofittable" (I guess wherever possible).
What exactly does the word "introduce" mean, here? The Model X has been "introduced" but you can't buy one yet. Some time ago they were talking about having four vehicles built on this platform - a sedan (Model S), an SUV (Model X), a cabriolet, and a van. So maybe they're building prototypes for more variants on the Model S platform, to be manufactured and sold in a few years...
I think a Performance Plus is the obvious one. Low incremental manufacturing cost (probably nearly zero) and higher price means higher margin.
Larger battery pack is another one but for that to be higher margin, they'd need to charge more than an extra $10K or wait for the batteries to improve enough. Maybe this is a late 2013 / early 2014 offering?
The more radical choices seem to be AWD, station wagon and convertible. All of them would require suspension retuning, crash testing and additional engineering. The wagon and convertible seem like the easiest change to make. The changes are only to the body, very few if any changes should be required from a crash safety perspective (the S already has a roll bar or two in place) and the amount of suspension retuning should be pretty low if they can keep the weight distribution similar to the base Model S.
And the margin on a convertible could be very nice. Ditto wagon if they can sell it at a higher price than its corresponding sedan.
AWD seems like a stretch. There's non-trivial engineering problems to be solved there and they'd have to backport the solution to the S platform. I can see this as a 2014 offering though.
Larger battery pack is another one but for that to be higher margin, they'd need to charge more than an extra $10K or wait for the batteries to improve enough. Maybe this is a late 2013 / early 2014 offering?
The more radical choices seem to be AWD, station wagon and convertible. All of them would require suspension retuning, crash testing and additional engineering. The wagon and convertible seem like the easiest change to make. The changes are only to the body, very few if any changes should be required from a crash safety perspective (the S already has a roll bar or two in place) and the amount of suspension retuning should be pretty low if they can keep the weight distribution similar to the base Model S.
And the margin on a convertible could be very nice. Ditto wagon if they can sell it at a higher price than its corresponding sedan.
AWD seems like a stretch. There's non-trivial engineering problems to be solved there and they'd have to backport the solution to the S platform. I can see this as a 2014 offering though.
Nikoli
Member
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
I think that you are right. People interested to the Model S are very much concerned to the technical improvements done on the car and would be available to spend a little bit more in order to have higher range and AWD.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Does it make sense to offer something "better" than the Sig Performance so soon after that launch? There's enough complaints on TMC about Signature value; what does it do the value of a Signature to not even be "top of the line" any more?
I wonder if this one comment from Elon is being overcooked? Maybe it's just a cabrio version or something.
I wonder if this one comment from Elon is being overcooked? Maybe it's just a cabrio version or something.
smorgasbord
Active Member
Musk did say that they were surprised by many people were opting for the Performance version (so much so that sourcing parts for them was an issue), and that they were seeing lock-ins going for more options overall than they had anticipated. So, it makes sense business-wise to cater to that.
I think what we're seeing with Model S Sigs parallels Roadster Sigs, just on a faster timetable.
To be successful, Tesla needs to move forward. They can't not improve the product just because previous purchasers won't be happy. From what we've heard and seen with Roadster, new options will be made retro-fittable to previous cars (at a price) where possible. You can now get your Roadster Signature upgraded to double-din dash and have even better soundproofing than was available in v2.5.
I understand there's a difference between "options" and "variants" - I just don't know if Musk's comments were made with that difference in mind. It could be he's shooting from the hip and that they're just now planning these new "things." So, lots can still change.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
My suspicion is that the variants are indeed sports-oriented, and we've already seen some evidence of different tech associated with the suspension and tires. We've a;so heard about sport seats being available in EU.
I am doubtful that trucks, wagons, or AWD versions are on the immediate horizon, because I think the R&D costs were already presented as being tapered down, not ramped up.
I am doubtful that trucks, wagons, or AWD versions are on the immediate horizon, because I think the R&D costs were already presented as being tapered down, not ramped up.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Yes, this is critical in order to establish continued demand and interest for Tesla's innovations (especially while battery costs are high). There will not only be new things next year, but hopefully for as long as Tesla exists.
It may also be part of giving "us" an opportunity to respond by showing which options/variants we would be interested in, so yes, lots can still change. Before the Model X announcement, Tesla/Elon did often mention that there would be an AWD option for the Model S. So while it is possible that this is now planned as an Model X exclusive, this thread appears to show that there would be a strong interest in an AWD option for the Model S.
Another option we know they've already been working on, with retro-fit-ability in mind, is ACC, and there will surely be similar electronic-assist options.
They just need to make sure that these innovations will not take resources away needed to increase production with high quality.
I'd imagine these kind of add-ons are highly profitable too. Since most people wouldn't buy a new car 2 years after getting the Model S 1.0 just to get ACC, making that available to prior owners would add revenue without cannibalizing many future sales and would also increase customer loyalty.
Raise the back a bit, sacrificing some high speed aerodynamics for better passenger ergonomics. It could definitely work as a cab.
Similar threads
