Tesla will introduce few "other variants of Model S" next year.

[shokunin]

We actually dropped our X reservation due to the falcon wing doors and went to a second S reservation. While I would have liked the extra cargo space, the falcon wings were a show stopper for the wife.

 

[Boltz]

The AWD in the S is not an if but rather a when. As others have stated the skate boards are so similar it would not be difficult. The cars that the S is competing with (Porsche, Audi, etc.) offer this option. However, my question is about AWD and performance. So to the experts out here, how would a second motor and better grip affect the 0-60 time (i.e. 3.5), 0-100 and the 1/4 mile times?

 

[Norbert]

The AWD in the S is not an if but rather a when. As others have stated the skate boards are so similar it would not be difficult. The cars that the S is competing with (Porsche, Audi, etc.) offer this option. However, my question is about AWD and performance. So to the experts out here, how would a second motor and better grip affect the 0-60 time (i.e. 3.5), 0-100 and the 1/4 mile times?

I think for the Model X's front motor, the number given was 50% added torque. I don't know how that translates into acceleration time, though.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

The AWD in the S is not an if but rather a when. As others have stated the skate boards are so similar it would not be difficult. The cars that the S is competing with (Porsche, Audi, etc.) offer this option. However, my question is about AWD and performance. So to the experts out here, how would a second motor and better grip affect the 0-60 time (i.e. 3.5), 0-100 and the 1/4 mile times?

I think that the benefit of AWD is not so much for acceleration, that of course will increase, but mainly for the Stability Control. Thanks to the AWD we will have an active Electronic Stability Control with all the single wheels that, in a completely independent way, will activate the brakes or accelerate to keep the correct path.

 

[ohh]

How would AWD affect the range of the existing batteries? I would guess it would decrease the range, but how much?

 

[Vger]

I think that the benefit of AWD is not so much for acceleration, that of course will increase, but mainly for the Stability Control. Thanks to the AWD we will have an active Electronic Stability Control with all the single wheels that, in a completely independent way, will activate the brakes or accelerate to keep the correct path.

Also, as described for the X, it provides for 4-wheel steering and a much tighter turning circle-- very cool!

 

[Johan]

I think for the Model X's front motor, the number given was 50% added torque. I don't know how that translates into acceleration time, though.

The front motor draws it's electricity from the same battery as the rear motor, so I suppose the limiting factor here will be how much of a sustained boost of power the battery can output. Even if the current rear-motor performance Model S already draws close to maximum, you might get better acceleration by distributing that power optimally between front and rear motor, and surely you will get a lot better handling. We know that the limitor for performance differences between the 40kWh, 60kWh, 85kWh and 85kWh performance is not the motor, but rather the battery output and when you compare the 85/P85 it's the wiring between battery and motor and the inverter. A second motor might or might not have it's own converter (likely not?) so that would be a limiter? But there would have to be separate wiring to the front motor so that would not be a limiter I guess?

 

[Boltz]

The addition of the second motor adds some weight but it also adds more power. How does this translate to faster 0-60 and 0-100 times? Yes the raw speed of the performance model is a big attraction for me. I think AWD would bring the SX into the A1 category and would match it with just about daily driver in terms of performance and handling (and all without a drop of gas). I hope that AWD becomes another box to check on 'My Garage Page". So if AWD comes in what is the estimate of those numbers above?

 

[Oyvind.H]

on the other hand, if they simply would offer the X without falcon wings, we would seriously consider being an all Tesla household and stick with our current non-AWD S reservation.

+1

Really hope those Falcon wings won`t make it to production. They are the only thing wrong with that car.

 

[ElSupreme]

The main advantage to AWD in a performance comparison isn't more power, or torque. But the roughly doubled traction you gain by adding two tires to the mix. Normal ICE based AWD cars have the problem of overcoming a lot of inertia in the weight of an AWD system. Where as the SX or X will only have a very small rotor and axle to spin up versus a couple of differentials a driveshaft, and an axle an ICE has.

I am fairly certain that Tesla is maxing out the power delivery of the battery in the performance S already. If the performance is limited by grip then the SX would help, if it is power/torque limited you would get a slight advantage putting out slightly more power at low rpms but the real advantage is in the extra 2 tires worth of grip.

 

[Hasse]

+1

Really hope those Falcon wings won`t make it to production. They are the only thing wrong with that car.

The thing that makes sense here is to keep the Falcon Wings on the X and introduce the SX to keep people like you interested (and me, but for other reasons. I am considering skipping my S reservation to get an X, even though I like the S better. That is how much I want AWD and a hitch)

 

[Mycroft]

The main purpose for the falcon doors is to facilitate getting children in and out of the two rear rows. I think soccer moms who check it out in person will be in love with the doors.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

The main advantage to AWD in a performance comparison isn't more power, or torque. But the roughly doubled traction you gain by adding two tires to the mix. Normal ICE based AWD cars have the problem of overcoming a lot of inertia in the weight of an AWD system. Where as the SX or X will only have a very small rotor and axle to spin up versus a couple of differentials a driveshaft, and an axle an ICE has.

I am fairly certain that Tesla is maxing out the power delivery of the battery in the performance S already. If the performance is limited by grip then the SX would help, if it is power/torque limited you would get a slight advantage putting out slightly more power at low rpms but the real advantage is in the extra 2 tires worth of grip.

That's right. So not only we will have active Electronic Stability Control but the answer of the wheels to the ESC will also be faster due to the fact that the electric engines are faster to answer to the ESC because they don't have the greater inertia of an ICE car. That's really the maximum for an AWD car.

 

[Oreo]

I think They should simply have an option with or whitout Falcon Wing doors on the X.
For the S however, AWD is more than welcomed, but I personally think upgradeable bushings and sportier seat options are more likely. Very excitinng though :biggrin:

 

[vfx]

The main purpose for the falcon doors is to facilitate getting children in and out of the two rear rows. I think soccer moms who check it out in person will be in love with the doors.

It's a solution to a problem. Not just a gimmick. When they get it right, it will be imitated.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

My suspicion is that the variants are indeed sports-oriented, and we've already seen some evidence of different tech associated with the suspension and tires. We've a;so heard about sport seats being available in EU.

I am doubtful that trucks, wagons, or AWD versions are on the immediate horizon, because I think the R&D costs were already presented as being tapered down, not ramped up.

I totally agree about the general likelyhood of new versions/improvements being made to the Performance model. It's their halo car, and the car that is winning them the awards, while lighting up blogs and forums around the world with drag race videos. Plus there is evidence from Inside Line and other testers who sussed out that Elon's personal car is a testbed for an upgraded performance variant.

They have already gotten Tesla on record considering a new variant with a sport tuned suspension, Pilot Supersports and wider rear tires. I believe that spatterso911 also reported that Tesla engineers were working on upping the maximum RPM's of the motor (feel free to correct me if I misremembered your post :smile.

I am very far from understanding how much additional performance Tesla might be able to extract from their existing power electronics/inverter, but to the extent they are able to I think there is a huge business case for a Performance Plus car that is priced at ~$100k+ as opposed to the current ~$85k model, at least to the extent that it could actually improve on performance. The existing Model S Performance is actually a huge bargain compared to the competition, which should give space for Tesla to create an upmarket version while remaining a value proposition.

 

[WhiteKnight]

The main advantage to AWD in a performance comparison isn't more power, or torque. But the roughly doubled traction you gain by adding two tires to the mix. Normal ICE based AWD cars have the problem of overcoming a lot of inertia in the weight of an AWD system. Where as the SX or X will only have a very small rotor and axle to spin up versus a couple of differentials a driveshaft, and an axle an ICE has.

I am fairly certain that Tesla is maxing out the power delivery of the battery in the performance S already. If the performance is limited by grip then the SX would help, if it is power/torque limited you would get a slight advantage putting out slightly more power at low rpms but the real advantage is in the extra 2 tires worth of grip.

+1000!

- - - Updated - - -

I definitely think there is room for a Model S Station Wagon ("Shooting Brake") that slots between the Model S Sedan and the Model X. Similar to the BMW 5-Series // 5-Series GT // X5.

I also think AWD is a no brainer for all the reasons mentioned already.

With regard to crash-testing they'll already be crash-testing the X and if you look at the diagram of the X you can see that the motor fits over top of the front axle so the crumple zone will be reduced only slightly if at all.

Final thought is what if they had a Convertible Model S and they found a way for the top to fold into the frunk so you don't lose any trunk space - that would be cool!

 

[Doug_G]

From Tesla Motors' CEO Discusses Q3 2012 Results - Earnings Call Transcript (QA Session) - Seeking Alpha

And then there are a few other variants of the Model S that we will kind of put next year that I think is going to be pretty exciting.

That's a pretty vague statement for people to be coming up with all this AWD speculation, etc.

If I had to guess, "kind of put" means something like "we'll announce them". I really think he's talking about significant new Model S platform derivatives, in addition to the Model X, not new versions of the Model S. I don't think he's talking about anything that will be manufactured next year, or the year after. We're talking cabriolet, cargo van, "Shooting Brake" (per WhiteKnight), etc.

 

[Norbert]

The main advantage to AWD in a performance comparison isn't more power, or torque. But the roughly doubled traction you gain by adding two tires to the mix. Normal ICE based AWD cars have the problem of overcoming a lot of inertia in the weight of an AWD system. Where as the SX or X will only have a very small rotor and axle to spin up versus a couple of differentials a driveshaft, and an axle an ICE has.

"Doubled traction" also means that the same acceleration (or even 50% more) will put less strain on the rubber, and the tires don't need to be as "sporty".

Plus, regen will be balanced front/rear instead of tending to make the rear break out.

I am fairly certain that Tesla is maxing out the power delivery of the battery in the performance S already. If the performance is limited by grip then the SX would help, if it is power/torque limited you would get a slight advantage putting out slightly more power at low rpms but the real advantage is in the extra 2 tires worth of grip.

The Model X has the same motor as the Model S in the rear. Somehow they are (or intend to be) able to provide the Model X Performance with the power to provide 50% additional torque (and achieve 0-60 in 4.4 sec with the additional weight).

---
An additional reason to add an AWD option to the S is that AWD is an additional benefit from an electric drive: The front can be independently controlled with high electronic speed (as was explained for the Model X), and it doesn't require a drive shaft to the front or back, as it does for an ICE.

So it would be an additional way to highlight the advantages of an electric drive train, which is one of Elon's stated goals.

 

[Johan]

[...] Somehow they are (or intend to be) able to provide the Model X Performance with the power to provide 50% additional torque (and achieve 0-60 in 4.4 sec with the additional weight).

Or better!

I still vote firmly for the S-AWD, would gladly pay another $10.000 for that option here in winterland.