TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Tesla will never stop innovating. Major revisions every 12-18 months.

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by Az_Rael, Jan 22, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Robe54

    Robe54 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Usa
    My question: are we considering UQM Tech's, American made EV drive, for the pickup truck ?
    A fluid cooled D.C. motor with a 2-speed transmission made by Eaton industries, balanced with Pi-Innovo control. I love the results, and American made !
    Tesla is the gift in the present, presently Tesla is the latest and greatest !
     
  2. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    3,404
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    Nah then you'd have people complaining about the model they trade for each Winter and raving about how great the other 3 models were. Why can't Tesla make cars that work as well in the Winter would be the war cry. :eek:

    If they did 3 month leases they'd have to have climate modeling classes for the driver or NDAs to keep them from whining. :)
     
    • Funny x 1
  3. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    9,451
    Location:
    EU
    I am happy to report I have nothing further to add to this topic after @dhanson865's exhaustive message. :D
     
  4. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    3,998
    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    It's really hard right now to gauge the impact on resale due to the $7500 tax rebate that makes the resale value look horrible, but that's going to expire roughly within a years time frame.

    The other thing to keep in mind is the Software lags the hardware considerably. With AP1 we're going to be getting some final touches just as AP2 barely reaches the equivalency stage. To really get the benefit of the AP2 hardware it's likely going to be another 6 months to a year.

    It's also hard to really gauge what will happen because Tesla isn't really in the business of selling cars to consumers. They're in the business of selling energy. Products that use energy and generate energy.

    It's a weird time to be buying any car for the long term because long term car ownership is going to rapidly decline as more and more people ride share. Where they're going to be getting into self-drivng ubers or self-driving Tesla's. Sure it might initially be limited to point-point, but that's all going to quickly evolve.

    Tesla is telling people that an AP2 car will be capable of full self-driving, but we don't know that for certain.

    All we know is it's most likely to happen in AP2 car than anything else we can buy. That's the differentiation between AP1. If that doesn't materialize and you still have to hold the wheel then what really separates an AP2 car? They still have roughly the same amount of road noise, and roughly the same interior quality. Tesla isn't even that focused on correcting any of that. It's all about autopilot.
     
  5. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    16,774
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Umm, no.

    2015 deliveries 50,580

    2016 deliveries 76,230

    Over 50% growth. Of course that is both the S and the X. But growth is growth.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. Haxster

    Haxster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    802
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    "...never stop innovating..." Well, that's reassuring to hear.

    But "never" is a really really really long time. I hope to still have a Tesla before never runs out.
     
  7. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    4,394
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    I wonder at what point they will sunset software updates for classic cars. Right now they are having to support three software versions (no AP, AP1 and AP2). The AP2 cars have new CPUs, so I assume eventually updates will no longer be fed down all the way to us classic owners. Rather like old iPhones. Expensive old iPhones ;)

    I am OK with that as long as whatever version of software they leave us with is stable and all the networked functionality continues to work.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    7,531
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    The computer for AP2 has nothing to do with the MCU that's in all of our cars.
     
    • Informative x 1
  9. Darren Donovan

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    Messages:
    458
    Location:
    Central CA
    It's awesome that Tesla is always changing/innovation, no other company is doing this. BUT, and this is a huge but, the Achilles heel of Tesla is the haphazard poor quality of the vehicles and randomly incompetent service. Unless those issues are rectified, forget about staying in business. I'm well aware that there are many Tesla owners with no/minimal problems, but it's the ones with persistent issues and runaround service delay that resonate the loudest with the public.
     
  10. Canuck

    Canuck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    6,197
    Location:
    South Surrey, BC
    This thread if funny, as if people are talking about TSLA instead of TESLA.

    You're buying a significantly depreciating asset people, not an investment. Yes, perhaps you can bring the depreciation down if you buy used. And if you don't mind the bank owning your car and telling you how much you can drive per year without a penalty, and the cost you have to pay at the end if you want to buy it, you might want to consider a lease.

    But no matter how you look at it you will be taking a big hit when it comes to depreciation. In comparison, however, there's really not much of a difference in depreciation between Tesla, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, etc.

    Good for Elon to tell the whiners to go elsewhere if they can't deal with getting what they ordered and paid for. I guess he's finally had enough of the complaining. I also don't get being envious of someone else getting something better. To me, that's the sign of a bad attitude. Those same people would be happy as long as someone else didn't get something better. I've used this analogy before and I'll use it again: They are the little boy/girl in school who can't enjoy their one cookie if the kid next to them has two. Life's all about attitude. We create our own reality. Stop crying and enjoy your one cookie.

    I would have never bought my car new if I couldn't have afforded to take a big hit in depreciation. When AP came out shortly after I brought I was happy for those who got it -- not envious.

    Buy TSLA if you want to make money (hopefully). Buy a TESLA if you want to lose money (guaranteed) but enjoy your life.
     
    • Like x 13
    • Love x 1
  11. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    9,451
    Location:
    EU
    #51 AnxietyRanger, Jan 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
    Canuck: I don't disagree with the notion that we make our own realities. Most of the time inside our minds is where we can affect most change.

    But one aspect of that is also sometimes taking to the streets so to speak to make the world better.

    The weekend after Countergate and Inauguration is the perfect example in time, for both Tesla and the wider world alike.

    Elon is not always right, even if he sends his tweets and press secretary to tell us we are wrong... ;)

    Customer feedback is good.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  12. ShockOnT

    ShockOnT ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2016
    Messages:
    2,841
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yes, but their cars are barely altered with each new model release.
    The same tired old turbo petrol engines, with the compression turned up 0.5bar on the new model to give an extra few kW and Nm. An 8" satnav to replace the old 7" and so on.
    Snooze-fest.
     
  13. DJ 240V

    DJ 240V Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2016
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    California
    There is one other factor that you need to account for -software. Just like the iPhone , the older models will be ingored and you will be stagnated or even worse ignored. Even though I'm completely happy with the hardware - the lack of support of software for that specific hardware will depreciate the car.
     
  14. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2015
    Messages:
    3,998
    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    #54 S4WRXTTCS, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
    We all know an automobile is a depreciating asset (in most cases). That isn't lost on people, and I think most are just trying to gauge how bad it will be in comparison to MB, Porsche, etc.

    When it comes to Tesla it's really hard to gauge the future because there is the mixture of unkept promises plus innovation to blur over the unkept promises. :)
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  15. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    9,451
    Location:
    EU
    The exaggerations like @Dynastar's "I want to own a car that has been made great by constant innovation, but I'd like them to stop after I buy the car!" and @Canuck's "You're buying a significantly depreciating asset people, not an investment." are hardly helpful IMO.

    I have not seen one person here that I reasonably would expect to not understand that innovation or car depreciation never stands still. Of course they never stop (with certain obvious exceptions of course with defunct makers and classics). I am sure we are all aware and appreciative of these facts and to even imply otherwise is a disservice to the conversation.

    Clearly we are offering our opinions within the framework of ongoing innovation and depreciation, suggesting otherwise is ludicrous. The opinion that Tesla might be wise to pace their changes a little is hardly the same as asking them to stop innovating, let alone to somehow stop depreciating our cars...

    Constant innovation does not necessarily equate erratic product changes many times a quarter. There are other shades of grey.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Disagree x 1
  16. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    9,451
    Location:
    EU
    I would agree on the powertrain, that's why I now drive a Tesla instead of an Audi. That's the snooze-fest.

    But the rest of the traditional high-end premium cars certainly do change significantly at those known markers. They are far superior to any Tesla in e.g. their interior comforts and changes made to those at the intervals. And they do make big changes on the technical side. Plus the design touches are certainly comprehensive.

    It will be interesting to see how Tesla handles larger model changes. Will the current Model S be a perpetual canvas for them to tweak a little all the time or will there be a clearly new Model S "II" at some point, equivalent to the change traditional companies make every 6-8 years. Model S did get a fairly expected mid-life facelift externally, so that could suggest Tesla is aiming for a completely new one around 2018-2020.

    But who knows with Tesla.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  17. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    4,394
    Location:
    Palmdale, CA
    We are talking about TSLA in general and how this rapid innovation policy might affect them vs the individual cars (or at least I was). That's why I put this thread in the Tesla Motors section.

    It's true, depreciation rates on luxury cars is pretty terrible and it turns out that Tesla was not immune with the Model S. But for folks shopping in the $35k bracket, there are a lot of cars in that price range that have a much better depreciation curve and it can be a factor for people, especially if they only keep the car a few years. So if this trend continues to the 3, it will end up being a negative for folks buying those cars. It's one thing to know you are buying a depreciating asset, it's another when you actually take a bath upon selling the car. I bought a $35k Volt and sold it two years later for $9500. I knew I was going to take a hit selling the car so early, but that was luxury car levels of depreciation. I figured I might as well at least have the luxury EV to enjoy next time if I was going to take those levels of depreciation.

    If I was a more normal person, I would probably have sworn off EVs all together and bought another Lexus
     
  18. Matt125

    Matt125 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    UK
    I'm really surprised that there are people out there who actually think they can "invest" in an electric car, e.g. buy one, use it, then sell it for close to the original sales price. I'd like to know what these people are smoking. Correct me please if I am wrong, but I thought the only cars that appreciate in value are collector's items (a special edition Ferrari, say) and cars that have some kind of important cultural or historical value, e.g. driven by Elvis.

    Why people expect they can buy a Tesla and have people eager to buy it from them a few years is beyond me... sure, people like buying used cars, but at a much bigger discount than it would cost to buy new, especially if the car doesn't even have autopilot hardware (which a lot of used Teslas here in the UK are like).
     
    • Like x 1
  19. number12

    number12 Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    1,531
    Location:
    Tesla
    I really do not understand how people miss the point so badly.

    No one is saying tesla should appreciate. It's all about relative and PREDICTABLE depreciation.
     
    • Like x 1
  20. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    9,451
    Location:
    EU
    You are surprised by a non-existent thing.

    Nobody, absolutely nobody is saying such things here.

    The argument is that the unconventional change cycle in Teslas (we have four different product changes already in January alone on the product on sale) has potential downsides. One of them could be an accelerated depreciation compared to normal car cycles.

    Some are thinking, maybe Tesla should pace themselves a little, maybe collect changes into slightly larger groups than keep making almost erratically small and big changes all the time.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC