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Tesla will not upgrade the 40 or 60kWh Model S to 85/90kWh (confirmed)

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#21
Quote Originally Posted by Panu View Post
This guy upgraded for $18K:

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh (Page 3)

Interesting: My original intent was to get 60KwH battery, which I did and Tesla did originally say could be UPGRADED to 85. That article was Dec 2013. We took delivery of our Tesla April 2013. I called 6 months ago and they said NO upgrade then called again yesterday and they said it is not as simple as just swapping battery, had to perform other mods. NOW, this could just be Tesla NOT wanting to deal with this since so many CPO 85 are out there and now the D models, etc. That's why I am looking to trade up somehow.
 
#23
I have a S40. They are the same as a the S60, except charging is limited to a max charge of 68%, which is supposed to work out to 42 kWh (making up for the fact that the car is actually heavier then the S40 was spec'd to be, so it wouldn't have been able to achieve the spec'd range for the 40 with the extra battery).

ALL Model S cars have the hardware required for supercharging, the "firmware" upgrade to get the other 32% of the S60 is $10K USD, +$2K if you want Supercharging. In fact the S40, S60, S85 are all exactly the same, except for the pack and the firmware for the power draw from it. The P85 and D cars have different motor configurations and no doubt diff firmware for power draw.

As to why not get a CPO car, my S40 will get me <50% of a CPO car. 50K for a CPO that isn't my choice of color, may not have all the options my car has is not appealing. $25K for a 90kWh would also be a lot, but at least it would be for a car that I actually already love. :D

PokerBroker said:
No you cannot upgrade a 40, 60, or 70 to a 90 for the same cost as 85 owners... The upgrade for 85 owners factors in their trade in of a lightly used 85kwh pack... Sorry
Click to expand...

Of course, it won't be the same. But for physically identical packs, it should be the same. All the 60 packs (including all the S40 cars) should be able to trade-in their packs for 85 packs at the same rate, and a different higher same rate to a 90. Should be a way to figure it out based on battery capacity and mileage on the pack. I would expect Tesla may by supply constrained, so it would probably offer the option to those who paid the most first.
 
#24
Didn't they sell the S40 at essentially a loss? That's why you have to pay $10k for the firmware upgrade to S60? My point being though physically the same, the actual cost to do what you propose would by 10K more for the S40 due to you paying 10k less at purchase?
 
#25
Ed Chan said:
Didn't they sell the S40 at essentially a loss? That's why you have to pay $10k for the firmware upgrade to S60? My point being though physically the same, the actual cost to do what you propose would by 10K more for the S40 due to you paying 10k less at purchase?
Click to expand...

The car is lifted 4(?) bolts are removed a 60kWh battery is removed, a bigger 85 or 90kWh battery is bolted on, car is lowered, firmware is replaced. The parts, procedure and labour are identical.

The company choose to sell a product at a loss (or lower margin), so I should pay them 10K for a firmware upgrade to 60 kWh that will then be overwritten immediately by another firmware upgrade to 85/90 kWh when the pack is replaced? :confused:
 
#26
ged said:
The car is lifted 4(?) bolts are removed a 60kWh battery is removed, a bigger 85 or 90kWh battery is bolted on, car is lowered, firmware is replaced. The parts, procedure and labour are identical.

The company choose to sell a product at a loss (or lower margin), so I should pay them 10K for a firmware upgrade to 60 kWh that will then be overwritten immediately by another firmware upgrade to 85/90 kWh when the pack is replaced? :confused:
Click to expand...

When Tesla canceled the S40, they could have just canceled your order or forced you to upgrade to a S60 for 10k more. Their preorder contract allows either party to cancel the order. You do understand they did you a big favor by selling you a software limited S60 at a loss, right? Bottom line, Tesla has never publicly said an upgrade exists, though it's technically possible. Its their policy and they own the software rights to enforce it.

Having said that, if you could find someone to reverse engineer the software to enable the S85 battery, then you're more than welcome to do the swap yourself, but I don't think Tesla owes you any favors on this front. At no point have they ever said a S40/S60 upgrade is offered in their selling material or their service collateral.

Think of it this way, one could upgrade an iPad from 16GB to 64GB -- all you need to do is reprogram the ROM and solder on a new memory chip. But no one does it, and no one complains to Apple that you can't do it. A Tesla isn't a homebrew Windows PC... you can't just buy parts at Newegg and put it together yourself and replace parts in the future. It's a closed eco-system. Upgrades and changes require the express consent of Tesla as long as you are using their software.
 
#27
I don't believe they sold the S40's at a loss, just less margin. If we think about it they went for about $60K. 20% of that is $12K. We have always been told that the margins at that time was about 20%. I would say it was a low margin sell or at worse case it was break even.

My prediction is that Tesla will eventually allow larger batteries to be installed in the S40's and S60's but they are going to charge the full retail price of the battery plus labor. Today it will be about $42K for the current 85 or $45K for the 90. They may buy back the old battery at a low percentage of it's initial cost. Something like initial battery manufacturing cost minus $150 per reduced mile. They also may treat the 40's as though the initial costs were 2/3rds less than the 60's.
 
#29
gocken2 said:
I don't believe they sold the S40's at a loss, just less margin. If we think about it they went for about $60K. 20% of that is $12K. We have always been told that the margins at that time was about 20%. I would say it was a low margin sell or at worse case it was break even.

My prediction is that Tesla will eventually allow larger batteries to be installed in the S40's and S60's but they are going to charge the full retail price of the battery plus labor. Today it will be about $42K for the current 85 or $45K for the 90. They may buy back the old battery at a low percentage of it's initial cost. Something like initial battery manufacturing cost minus $150 per reduced mile. They also may treat the 40's as though the initial costs were 2/3rds less than the 60's.
Click to expand...

That doesn't explain the owner that swapped out their 60 battery with an 85 for ~$18k from Tesla. A 40 has a 60 battery. Tesla would be getting back a 60 battery, just the same as the aforementioned S60 owner. Sure, maybe the 90 will cost more than the 85 battery, but surely not be 42-45k for a swap if the owner is trading in.

- - - Updated - - -

gaswalla said:
There is so much misinformation and hypothetical discussions presented as fact in this thread. I hope no one is making any future plans based on this thread
Click to expand...

I'm actively looking for an S40 right now! Know anyone that has one for sale? I'm a little tired of the Volt, TBH.
I don't understand why this is so hard to believe. I'm calling Tesla in the morning to ask what it takes to upgrade a 40/60 to a 90.
 
#40
Chris TX said:
Yes, Tesla did allow an owner to upgrade his S60 to a P85 in the past. However, they want you to upgrade the whole car, now. The trade-in value for a 60 (or "40") is too low to make any sense. Factor in the requirements of Supercharging and you really might as well just switch cars.
Click to expand...

This analysis is not quite correct on the part of Tesla. Some owners picked their options *very carefully*. If an owner is dead set on keeping a discontinued paint color, cloth headliner, old-style seats, etc. etc., it would absolutely makes sense for that owner to upgrade the car with a new battery.

If I were Tesla, I would offer the upgrade for the price of trading in for a new car. (Or, the undiscounted price of a whole new battery plus profit margin.) Some of the owners will actually take the offer, specifically because they want to keep options which have been discontinued. And Tesla can make large profits off of them.
 
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