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Tesla won't sell me a 90 kWh pack unless I give them my old pack for 12% market value

Discussion in 'Model S' started by wk057, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    So, I've been throwing around the idea of upgrading my P85D's pack to a 90 kWh pack. Independent of any Ludicrous update, mind you, which I'm not entirely interested in paying for.

    Anyway, when I inquired about a month ago I was given a quote for the process. It was $25,000 for the 90 kWh pack, less a $2,500 "core refund" for turning in my 85 pack, plus minimal labor, and obviously sales tax.

    OK, but I don't want to sell my 85 pack to Tesla for $2,500. Why would I do that when they sell on the open market for $15-20k easily? I asked about this and I was told that I could just not do the core refund portion (basically pay full price for the 90 pack) and keep my old pack, provided I transported it away in a timely manner. Cool. This works out then. Long story short, I'm looking for a pack to use for an upcoming EV conversion project and a Tesla 85 pack (dismantled and rearranged) would work just fine. What better way to do it than to just get a new pack for my Model S and use my own old pack? Win-win, right?

    So I pulled the trigger on it. I was told it'd take a week or so to get the pack to the service center. Cool! :)

    Shortly after, it turns out that Tesla doesn't want to sell me a new pack if I'm not going to sell them my old pack for $2,500. :( I mean, the 85 pack is mine. I own it completely. This isn't a lease and isn't even financed. I'm under no obligation to sell it to them or anyone for any price, let alone 12% of fair market value. That makes no sense from my end of the deal. The 90 pack part is listed as $25k. They offer a buy back/core refund on the old pack to shave a whopping $2,500 off that price to bring it to $22,500... but that would be pretty stupid, IMO. For a little bit of labor and a U-Haul rental you could at the very least just resell the old pack for way more money.

    I mean, I know they want to discourage people from upgrading their packs, as per Elon's comments, but really, who would sell them their old pack for $2,500? That is certainly ludicrous.

    Anyway, obviously just like I don't have to sell Tesla my pack, Tesla doesn't have to sell me a 90 pack, but I just figured I'd share this in case anyone else was considering anything similar.

    Just doesn't make much sense to me. Either the $25k is the actual cost of the pack, or it isn't. If the $25k number is contingent on the core refund of another pack, then the part price should be higher and the core refund should also be higher. If the 90 pack is actually something like $40k, they should price it as such and give a $17,500 core refund on the old pack, not price it at $25,000 and force a $2,500 core.

    I mean really, something fishy is going on here. Again, nothing to do with Ludicrous mode. That's another can of worms.

    I'm waiting to hear back on a final decision on the matter from the powers that be at Tesla, but I'm not hopeful on it. What company has a list price for a product, has that product in stock, and has a customer with a check in hand willing to pay that price.... and then doesn't want to sell it? :confused:
     
  2. Drucifer

    Drucifer Active Member

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    Now we find out the secret place where Tesla DOES operate like a traditional car dealership ;)

    Too bad about the "funny money" thing with the trade-in.
     
  3. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

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    Hmm. If they quote you 25 K for a 90 kWh and you agree to pay the value up front, I don't see why they would have an issue with you keeping your 85. The only reason I can come up with is that the 90 kWh pack is much more than 25 K and that price already has the rebate of your old pack baked in. My guess would be some service rep got the 2,500 number wrong.
     
  4. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    There is no core charge on new parts. This is just more of Tesla's shady tactics that make dealerships seem honest....
     
  5. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Yes Tesla really seems very protective and tight when it comes to battery packs. They really don't want to sell those separate.
     
  6. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    I could've sworn this was discussed a while back, someone tried to do exactly that (keep the pack), and they were told the core refund is non-negotiable.
     
  7. Mark Z

    Mark Z Active Member

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    wk057 - Is your battery a version "A" pack?
     
  8. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

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    I suspect the issue is that they don't want unqualified people tinkering with a high voltage pack. A mistake would be picked up by press and harm company. I know OP knows what he is doing, but they can't offer an EE exam as alternative to trade in, can they? This is not shady, it's brand protection.
     
  9. luvnMyTS

    luvnMyTS Member

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    Welcome to the Monopoly that is Tesla. As much as I love the car and certain things about the company is as much as I absolutely hate their attitude when it comes to certain things. Tesla is very much a "my way or the highway" company. I wanted to buy a used battery for my car to replace my degraded battery. All at my own expense, they said no, we'll void your warranty if you do. I wanted to BUY next gen seats for my car. They again said No, they'll void my warranty if I do it on my own. My car's rear was sagging in back. The air suspension needed a simple adjustment. They wouldn't do it for the longest time. I said, OK, I'll do it myself. Again, NO, void warranty, Uhg!

    Amazing car, but until the government gets a hold of them and forces some competition, Tesla dictates what you do with the car YOU OWN. Just have to weigh the positives and negatives and decide if you can live with their ways to get what is otherwise an amazing vehicle.
     
  10. brkaus

    brkaus Member

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    Exactly how (or why) is the government going to get a hold of them and force competition? There are no other auto manufactures out there?
     
  11. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    FWIW Nissan is doing the same thing with LEAF battery replacements. The cost is $6,499 for a 24 kWh pack and you get a $1,000 core refund which is required.
     
  12. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    This is actually one of the lamest excuses out there. There is risk doing business in any field, and it's part of being in business.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This kind of monopolistic behavior is how consumer protection laws are born....
     
  13. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    It's a P85D dual motor pack. Pretty sure the suffix is "E", but it's unrelated to any of the old "A" pack supercharging stuff.

    But overall, I'm pretty confused. If it's not $25k, quote the right price. If it is, sell it. *shrugs*

    What's going to end up happening is Tesla losing out on the parts and service labor sale when I have to buy a salvage pack for my project instead of paying them full price to upgrade my existing pack and keeping my old pack for my project. Cheaper for me to go the salvage route, really.
     
  14. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    Really??? I mean really??? You want the government dictating to private business how they must operate? Um... last time I checked, this is America, not communist China... I think 'wk057's' post was very reasonable, and I understand the purpose of posting it. Tesla doesn't have to sell a battery separately and can place any terms it wants to on that purchase, provided those terms are legal which it would certainly appear they are. Whatever the reasoning is for Tesla not wanting to sell a Model S battery separately, it's their choice to make. I won't get into any potential reasons for their decision as that's a can of worms I'd rather not be responsible for opening.

    Jeff
     
  15. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Exactly. Core charges are for remanufactured parts, which in turn get refurbished to get resold. I have never bought a new part from a dealer that had a core charge. They can't have it both ways. Either the new replacement pack costs half the value of a new Tesla, or
    it's $25k. Gimmicks are not cool.

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    The problem is that Tesla wants the pack price to appear reasonable, when in fact it's sky high.
     
  16. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    I dislike their un-openness but I think the underlying motivation is two-fold:
    1) they're production constrained for batteries and they want the old packs back, for reuse, refurb, replacements etc.
    2) they don't want their packs picked apart, used in EV conversions etc. They don't want to be associated with that and they don't want bad PR from accidents etc.

    That said I think it's ridiculous they go back on their word.
     
  17. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

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    Sorry, I completely disagree. Letting non-qualified people tinker with a high voltage pack is consumer protection. Providing one to them (without the car) is negligent.

    I don't disagree about some of the other items that have been discussed (can't mess with suspension - voids warranty), but this one is COMPLETELY understandable.
     
  18. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are partially missing the point.

    I wouldn't argue the point if Tesla came out and openly said, "We will not sell you a replacement battery pack unless you turn in your pack at the same time." That would be fine, and would meet the goal of not allowing their packs to be messed with. (I'm not trying to get into a discussion of whether or not that goal is valid.)

    But that's not what Tesla is doing. Tesla is offering a new pack for a price of $25K, and saying that if you turn in your old pack, they will pay you $2500 for it, and then, saying, "Oh, and by the way, you have to sell us that old pack for $2500, or we won't sell you the new pack for $25,000." This is a completely byzantine approach to the problem. Either they are selling new packs, and offering an amount for a core exchange, or they are not. But if they are unwilling to sell a new pack unless they get an old one back, they should be stating that up front, and not pricing the pack the way they are, hiding their true intentions.
     
  19. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    I would understand if I were just saying, "Hey, Tesla! Sell me a pack!" and not having that pack installed in my car by them. No, I want to buy a new pack, have them install it, and keep my old one. Totally different. It's not up to them what I do with the old one. I could drop it out of my car right now and do whatever I please with it and they couldn't say a word about it, aside from the whole warranty thing.

    Hmm... actually, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Is my old 85 pack still covered under a warranty once it's removed from my car and I keep it? That's an interesting thought.

    Kind of a grey area there I guess. I personally don't care because I'll be immediately voiding any warranty that may be left on it anyway.
     
  20. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

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    I think WK was talking substance: he wants the pack. I was addressing why they are justified in not offering the pack. I think you are talking style: how they are communicating they won't give him the pack. I would agree that it would be clearer just to name one price and say "return of old pack is required". But it wouldn't really change anything of substance: they are not going to let people keep their old pack.

    I suspect Musk wanted to avoid 85 owners getting all ticked off that a 90 just came out, and wanted to announce upward compatibility and exchange program with the announcement of the 90. Of course, people started asking for details. Not sure they had thoroughly thought through the "how" of the program. Core charge just makes sense... but I'm sure the lawyers rode in and said "you can't let them keep it"... so they're stuck with a core charge and "no-keepie" policy, which seems conflicted to you... but doesn't surprise me a bit.

    Since I first started frequenting this forum, I've read a lot of posts from members who want everything completely thought through, packaged as a neat bundle, and bulletproof before it goes public. Any "adaptation" along the way is considered either incompetent or deceitful.

    If Tesla operated like that, they would have been out of business long ago. Personally, I love that they fling out new technology as fast as they can, adapt it to what they experience, and stay ambitious. I don't mind a few inconsistencies in the story along the way.
     

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