Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
103
79
USA
I have purchased used 2017 Tesla MS on 12/20/19, from 3rd party dealership (not Tesla), who purchased it from Tesla through the auction house on 11/15/19. The car had FSDC Autopilot.
Upon the software upgrade back in December the FSDC was yanked. In January when I was in Tesla service center, I was told the feature was removed (despite the fact EAP and FSDC were listed on the Monroney sticker)-

“Tesla has recent identified instances of customers being incorrectly configured for Autopilot versions that they did not pay for. Since, there was an audit done to correct these instances. Your vehicle is one of the vehicles that was incorrectly configured for Autopilot. We looked back at your purchase history and unfortunately Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for. We apologize for the confusion. If you are still interested in having those additional features we can begin the process to purchase the upgrade.”

When I asked when the audit was done, they said on 11/18/19 (have recorded that statement in the service invoice)

Can TESLA reach in current customers and de-content the car, AFTER the car changed hands - they sold the car on 11/15/19 and "conducted the audit" on 11/18/19?

What would be next? Disable/remove options like UHFS system, Subzero package, folding mirrors,? or maybe the geofencing me since I did not pay for rights to travel outside of my city?
Am I delusional?
I know at least a couple more new owners who are in the same boat.

Looks like a Class Action lawsuit? Any ambitious lawyers here to take on Tesla?
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,609
3,215
mtn view, ca
tesla needs to see the big picture here and stop being so PETTY.

if that happened to me, it would be the last tesla I would ever own and I'd make it my mission to tell everyone who asked, what I think of tesla.

poor show, tesla.

I hope you get made whole again. you paid for something and someone stole it from you. that's how I see it.
 

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
103
79
USA
I had a mobile tech today and he said this is something what Tesla does from mid-2018!
I am surprised nobody took them to the court yet.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,609
3,215
mtn view, ca
what is 'fsd'? is it a license? is it a purchase? a rental? a recurring expense? is it tied to owner? to car?

all this needs to be answered and in a legally binding way.

suppose I bought a bunch of music files from apple and installed them on my ipod. I then sell that ipod to you. does apple have the right to delete them and 'detect' that the device (3rd party doctrine, too!) changed hands? what gives them the legal right to do this?

this has to be settled. and yes, we need to sick the pack of dog^H^Hlawyers on tesla since tesla is misbehaving and needs to be straightened out (yeah, right, like that's gonna happen any time soon).

tesla wants to have it both ways. they SELL fsd and its tied to the car, not the owner. so what gives them the right to delete property from a 3rd party sale?

just wow.
 

animorph

Active Member
Apr 1, 2016
2,132
1,527
Scottsdale, AZ
Tesla has been removing FSD and free Supercharging from used cars they've been selling (and I think from used car dealers as well) for quite some time now, according to reports on this forum. Sounds like this car didn't quite get the downgrade before it was sold. The question is how was the car represented to the dealer when they purchased the car at auction?
 

Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,615
8,791
Palmdale, CA
I have purchased used 2017 Tesla MS on 12/20/19, from 3rd party dealership (not Tesla), who purchased it from Tesla through the auction house on 11/15/19. The car had FSDC Autopilot.
Upon the software upgrade back in December the FSDC was yanked. In January when I was in Tesla service center, I was told the feature was removed (despite the fact EAP and FSDC were listed on the Monroney sticker)-

“Tesla has recent identified instances of customers being incorrectly configured for Autopilot versions that they did not pay for. Since, there was an audit done to correct these instances. Your vehicle is one of the vehicles that was incorrectly configured for Autopilot. We looked back at your purchase history and unfortunately Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for. We apologize for the confusion. If you are still interested in having those additional features we can begin the process to purchase the upgrade.”

When I asked when the audit was done, they said on 11/18/19 (have recorded that statement in the service invoice)

Can TESLA reach in current customers and de-content the car, AFTER the car changed hands - they sold the car on 11/15/19 and "conducted the audit" on 11/18/19?

What would be next? Disable/remove options like UHFS system, Subzero package, folding mirrors,? or maybe the geofencing me since I did not pay for rights to travel outside of my city?
Am I delusional?
I know at least a couple more new owners who are in the same boat.

Looks like a Class Action lawsuit? Any ambitious lawyers here to take on Tesla?

No need for a class action, depending on your states small claims limits, I would just take them to small claims for the cost of the software features.

Tesla is so unorganized they might not even show up and you could win a default judgement.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,609
3,215
mtn view, ca
I understand that tesla controls a lot more when THEY are the seller (its still sleazy as hell, though!). even when they are the used car seller, they have some right to define what the car is, when THEY sell it.

but this sounds entirely different. a 3rd party seller sold the car (professional seller or just regular guy, what's the diff?)

if tesla does this to 3rd party dealers, they can/will do that to private person-person sales.

that sounds like its crossing the line.

hopefully you (OP) don't get stuck in the middle. you have a receipt that says you paid X and got a car with various features. now those features are deleted. who do you go after? I wonder if you have to go after the seller and they have to then go after tesla?

how messy! ;(
 
  • Like
Reactions: Superendo

swegman

Active Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,580
1,618
You indicate the car was sold by Tesla at auction and bought by a 3rd party dealership (not Tesla) who then sold it to you. Therein lies the problem.

It’s been well known for some time that when Tesla sells used vehicles at auction or even directly to a new individual that they remove features such as free unlimited supercharging for the life of the vehicle, free premium internet, FSD, etc. Once Tesla takes a car in as a trade, they are free to add/delete whatever features they want before reselling or auctioning the vehicle. They have been doing this for some time. What is on the Marony sheet is irrelevant to a 3rd party purchase once the used car was sold back to Tesla.

On the other hand, if the original owner of the car had sold it directly to you (that is, the original owner did not “sell” the car back to Tesla or did not sell it to a non-Tesla dealer (such as, but not limited to Carmax, a Mercedes dealer, etc)), Tesla would be precluded from removing features of the car.

It is posted on Tesla’s website somewhere what are the effects of buying a used vehicle that went from Tesla to the original buyer, then back to Tesla before being sold at a later date to you.

I am not defending Tesla and I think such actions hurt the brand name, but it was incumbent upon you to carefully research exactly what features were included on the 3rd party purchase you were making. If the dealership you bought the car from represented that the car has FSD, your gripe is with that dealer and not Tesla (the dealer should know Tesla’s policy with respect to buying vehicles at auction).

The sad fact is, when buying a used Tesla, it is buyer beware. It is very difficult to determine exactly what configuration the car has once the car goes through Tesla’s “hands” and is sold at auction or via a 3rd party dealership.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,609
3,215
mtn view, ca
what a way to ruin a reputation, as a budding newcomer to the auto field.

I wonder how long they'll be able to play it fast and loose like this? cross the wrong person (who has power and influence) and musk may meet his match.

sigh ;(
 
  • Funny
Reactions: madodel

dannycamps

Member
Apr 8, 2019
669
612
Northeast USA
This would be an interesting legal challenge and I doubt Tesla would win it. If you bought a car on the premise that it had FSD, and they then took that away, the car would not be delivered and Tesla would effectively be in breach of contract.

Seeing as the cost to add on FSD is $7k(?), small claims court may be an effective avenue to make you whole.
 

AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,331
3,469
Northern California
Did the dealer that purchased the vehicle from tesla know that FSD was going to be removed?
If they did then your beef is with them
If they didn’t, then the problem is with Tesla.

If the dealer advertised FSD as one of the options, my first step would be to go back to the dealer and seek compensation, aka full price to add FSD.
 

swegman

Active Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,580
1,618
This would be an interesting legal challenge and I doubt Tesla would win it. If you bought a car on the premise that it had FSD, and they then took that away, the car would not be delivered and Tesla would effectively be in breach of contract.

Seeing as the cost to add on FSD is $7k(?), small claims court may be an effective avenue to make you whole.

Except that Tesla makes it clear that certain features are removed when a car is traded in to them and later disposed (sold) by them, by auction or sold by a non-Tesla dealer (different rules applying based on how the car is sold).

Similarly, when buying a used Tesla from Tesla, they have been known to add features to cars that did not originally have certain features. For example, at one time when a battery software capped car was traded in, Tesla uncapped the battery and sold it as having a larger battery than when it was originally sold. Also, at one time Tesla added FSD to cars that did not have it originally that were then sold as used cars by Tesla.

This has been discussed many times in other threads. It’s buyer beware when buying a used Tesla that was traded in to Tesla, or sold via auction, or sold by a non-Tesla dealer. It is safest to buy a used Tesla from Tesla or from the owner of the car. If buying from an owner, it is necessary to verify the chain of ownership to ensure the car never was traded into Tesla, was never sold via auction and never sold by a third party non-Tesla dealer.

The OP apparently either did not do a thorough investigation (maybe incorrectly assuming the car had the features indicated in the Monroney sheet) or relied on the non-Tesla dealer indicating the car included FSD. If it’s the latter case, his complaint is against the non-Tesla dealer, and he should talk to that non-Tesla dealer. Unfortunately, this is not the first time a non-Tesla dealer sold a car representing that it included certain features (such as, for example, free unlimited supercharging for the life of the vehicle) which turned out to be false.
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,609
3,215
mtn view, ca
This has been discussed many times in other threads. It’s buyer beware when buying a used Tesla that was traded in to Tesla, or sold via auction, or sold by a non-Tesla dealer.

I'm still new to the tesla brand, so bear with me. if the user removed the lte module from his car (thus stopping tesla from 'scanning' his car, ever again) would it stop functioning? I can imagine that it might ping home (and get upset if it can't) but not sure what the failure mode is (yet) if it can't call home for extended periods of time.

I am not liking this side of tesla. again, I'm kind of new to the brand and I had no idea that this kind of behavior was typical of tesla.

tesla has a few years before the other silicon valley car makers catch up. they have owned the market, but that's not going to last forever. I hope they clean up before its too late; I still like my *car* but I'm starting to really take a dislike to the brand..
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeynerSeals

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
103
79
USA
You indicate the car was sold by Tesla at auction and bought by a 3rd party dealership (not Tesla) who then sold it to you. Therein lies the problem.

It’s been well known for some time that when Tesla sells used vehicles at auction or even directly to a new individual that they remove features such as free unlimited supercharging for the life of the vehicle, free premium internet, FSD, etc. Once Tesla takes a car in as a trade, they are free to add/delete whatever features they want before reselling or auctioning the vehicle. They have been doing this for some time. What is on the Marony sheet is irrelevant to a 3rd party purchase once the used car was sold back to Tesla.

On the other hand, if the original owner of the car had sold it directly to you (that is, the original owner did not “sell” the car back to Tesla or did not sell it to a non-Tesla dealer (such as, but not limited to Carmax, a Mercedes dealer, etc)), Tesla would be precluded from removing features of the car.

It is posted on Tesla’s website somewhere what are the effects of buying a used vehicle that went from Tesla to the original buyer, then back to Tesla before being sold at a later date to you.

I am not defending Tesla and I think such actions hurt the brand name, but it was incumbent upon you to carefully research exactly what features were included on the 3rd party purchase you were making. If the dealership you bought the car from represented that the car has FSD, your gripe is with that dealer and not Tesla (the dealer should know Tesla’s policy with respect to buying vehicles at auction).

The sad fact is, when buying a used Tesla, it is buyer beware. It is very difficult to determine exactly what configuration the car has once the car goes through Tesla’s “hands” and is sold at auction or via a 3rd party dealership.
My point is very clear - nobody should be able to remove anything once the car has been sold!
They can do whatever they want as long as they have a vehicle , but NOTHING after it was legally changed hands!
 

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
103
79
USA
This would be an interesting legal challenge and I doubt Tesla would win it. If you bought a car on the premise that it had FSD, and they then took that away, the car would not be delivered and Tesla would effectively be in breach of contract.

Seeing as the cost to add on FSD is $7k(?), small claims court may be an effective avenue to make you whole.
Unfortunately, my state has a limit for small claims as $2500.
 

P85DBeast

Side tEsLa
Mar 29, 2015
625
305
Atlanta, GA
Tesla being Tesla! It's sad that they resort to removing features from third-party buyers. Once they sell the car at auction (or wherever that may be) they no longer OWN it, its someone's car and they shouldn't think they have the ability to remove features. That's so ignorant that they removed FSD. I don't know what the hell is going on at Tesla but they need to rethink this its stupid. When some unsuspecting buyer purchases a car from a third party dealer (for a hefty price) and they were shown a window sticker that proves that the vehicle was purchased with FSD then Tesla REMOVES because it's a third-party car how do they expect the owner to feel?!?!? that's dumb and downright shady. Tesla STOP it, it's not funny this time.
 

swegman

Active Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,580
1,618
I'm still new to the tesla brand, so bear with me. if the user removed the lte module from his car (thus stopping tesla from 'scanning' his car, ever again) would it stop functioning? I can imagine that it might ping home (and get upset if it can't) but not sure what the failure mode is (yet) if it can't call home for extended periods of time.

I’m not arguing with you on the matter. I think what Tesla is doing hurts the brand. The fact that they have the legal right to remove (or even add) features once they obtain possession of the car from a prior owner doesn’t mean It is right. Tesla has a disdain for all 3rd party non-Tesla dealers and wants to control all aspects of their cars. In this regard, they operate as if they own the cars at all times (even after a sale of the vehicle) and all you have is a license to use the car.

As to your question, removal of the LTE module would result in the non-functioning of features of the navigation (traffic indication, re-routing due to traffic, etc), non-function streaming of internet services such as Tunein, etc., not being able to access the car using the Tesla (or similar) app, and no longer receiving firmware updates (not necessarily a bad thing these says). In this regard, Tesla requires that all cars sold after a certain date (would have to check the website for the effective date, which I believe was in 2019) be connected to the Tesla mothership to receive updates which must be installed in order to maintain the warranty. And yes, Tesla knows what updates were sent to your car (based on the VIN) and what date each update was installed and whether the update was successful or failed. (I found that out the hard way when I refused to update my car for months because I did not like version 9 of the software and then one day Tesla forced the update onto my car and when I confronted Tesla about it they pulled up on a computer screen the log showing me the date each update was sent to my car and the date I then installed the update).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Droschke and Sherlo

omgwtfbyobbq

Active Member
Aug 24, 2013
1,450
1,612
Southern California
Except that Tesla makes it clear that certain features are removed when a car is traded in to them and later disposed (sold) by them, by auction or sold by a non-Tesla dealer (different rules applying based on how the car is sold).
Tesla can do that all day long as long as they do it before they sell the car. Doing it afterwords is where shiz gets tricky. It's clearly ridiculous to remove tangible items after a sale, like a third row seat, even if it was supposed to be removed and someone forgot, but since it's easy with software, they're apparently going to try.

I feel like everyone at Tesla got the memo to cut costs and some people went too far.
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top