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Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]

2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
2,101
2,789
USA
I just experienced this. Purchased a 2017 MX from vroom. Pics showed EAP included. As a person new to Tesla I was not aware of the history. Car was delivered still had EAP for the almost full 72 hours it took them to add the car to my account and viola. EAP gone. The original sales sticker/tag was in the glove box that had EAP as part of the original configuration. I do think this was a lease vehicle at one point. I can see both sides of this argument. If there is a way to get it back great, but from I’ve been reading in this thread, that’s unlikely. I was pleasantly surprised that it came with premium sound and subzero so...you win some, you lose some.
To ME? I view that as Vroom selling you a car with a feature that was included with the car, and that they charged you as such. Then without your permission, said feature was removed.

Again, if it were ME? I'd send Vroom legal team a nicely worded letter via certified mail asking for a credit in the form of check for the value of EAP. I'd then keep that letter.

If they declined? I'd find out the name of the Registered Agent in your state, that represents Zoom. I'd then go to my local small claims court and file a case against Vroom, having the Registered Agent served on behalf of Vroom. Not sure if the max amount of your small claims would fully cover the value of EAP, but your courts website should be able to tell you.

Small claims suit in this instance = minimal (if any?) risk and potential thousands of dollars in reward. And what one may find? Since it tends to cost large companies more to have a lawyer represent in small claims court? High chance of a quick settlement in your favor..
 
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Stingray.Don

Member
Apr 13, 2020
40
66
Indianapolis
Tesla does not remove paid features. The only exception would be if Tesla takes the car in trade, in which case, they own it and can do whatever they want with it.

Alec, in your case, FSD was never paid for and yet Tesla added it as a matter of goodwill. Seems pretty generous to me.
 

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
104
109
USA
Tesla does not remove paid features. The only exception would be if Tesla takes the car in trade, in which case, they own it and can do whatever they want with it.

Alec, in your case, FSD was never paid for and yet Tesla added it as a matter of goodwill. Seems pretty generous to me.
Don, It was paid - by a previous owner and by me, as I paid for this specific feature by picking this specific car and paying more money! Yes, it was from 3rd party dealer, but does not matter at this point.
Let assume for a minute, Don, that you go to Costo to buy a laptop and decided to get the Windows laptop with a full, preinstalled MS Office on it.
But once you got comfortable with using that MS Office, Microsoft removes it says it was just a demo! They just forgot to tell you (or Costo) it was a demo version and you have to pay to use it.
What would you feel and say?
You probably would pick another laptop that clearly stated "a demo version included" (like they do nowadays) and was priced less, wouldn't you?
and please don't go into arguments "purchased vs licenced products", it is irrelevant to Tesla.
 
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Stingray.Don

Member
Apr 13, 2020
40
66
Indianapolis
Don, It was paid - by a previous owner and by me, as I paid for this specific feature by picking this specific car and paying more money! Yes, it was from 3rd party dealer, but does not matter at this point.
Let assume for a minute, Don, that you go to Costo to buy a laptop and decided to get the Windows laptop with a full, preinstalled MS Office on it.
But once you got comfortable with using that MS Office, Microsoft removes it says it was just a demo! They just forgot to tell you (or Costo) it was a demo version and you have to pay to use it.
What would you feel and say?
You probably would pick another laptop that clearly stated "a demo version included" (like they do nowadays) and was priced less, wouldn't you?
and please don't go into arguments "purchased vs licenced products", it is irrelevant to Tesla.

In your case, FSD was loaded as a demo and the original owner declined to purchase the option. Tesla just failed to remove the feature in a timely manner as they should have. Tesla was negligent, and I can’t blame you for being upset for having paid more for the car based on it having FSD. Tesla acknowledged the issue and gave you FSD as a resolution. They screwed up and made it right. I remember this situation from when you posted it on the Tesla forum. If you recall, my responses (unlike some of the others) were respectful and intended to be helpful.

My only issue is stating that Tesla removes features that were paid for, because that is simply not true. The narrative that I see perpetuated is that Tesla removes PAID features when the car is sold, which does not happen. The only exception would be if Tesla takes the car as a trade in, but in that case, they own it and can do whatever they want.
 

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
104
109
USA
I am sorry, but I do not think it was ever said to me that FSD was loaded as a demo. Tesla said "You did not pay for it" without specifying any details.
Removing anything after the sale happens (Tesla to 3rd party dealer) at least is unethical. I am not a lawyer but I think it is illegal. What is not true?
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,878
8,577
Maine
I am sorry, but I do not think it was ever said to me that FSD was loaded as a demo. Tesla said "You did not pay for it" without specifying any details.
Removing anything after the sale happens (Tesla to 3rd party dealer) at least is unethical. I am not a lawyer but I think it is illegal. What is not true?

The problem is actually that it's difficult to know what features the vehicle has enabled, and Tesla isn't interested in making it easy, because they make more money when you buy a new car. I think this is something that needs legislation. (Just following Tesla's behavior is probably a good way to create new legislation).
 
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r1200gs4ok

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
1,407
507
Irvine
To ME? I view that as Vroom selling you a car with a feature that was included with the car, and that they charged you as such. Then without your permission, said feature was removed.

Again, if it were ME? I'd send Vroom legal team a nicely worded letter via certified mail asking for a credit in the form of check for the value of EAP. I'd then keep that letter.

If they declined? I'd find out the name of the Registered Agent in your state, that represents Zoom. I'd then go to my local small claims court and file a case against Vroom, having the Registered Agent served on behalf of Vroom. Not sure if the max amount of your small claims would fully cover the value of EAP, but your courts website should be able to tell you.

Small claims suit in this instance = minimal (if any?) risk and potential thousands of dollars in reward. And what one may find? Since it tends to cost large companies more to have a lawyer represent in small claims court? High chance of a quick settlement in your favor..
in small claims court, attorneys are not allowed to be present and represent their clients......the only exception is, if there was a decision by the judge against them in a small claims court action and a properly executed appeal was generated by the one who lost......at least in California.....I know because I had a rented home that sustained over 10k damage....the renter tried to have his girlfriend attorney help during the case and the judge almost threw her out.....he lost and on the last day, he appealed......then had 2 postponements, failed on the 3rd try......with the 3 postponements in the first case, 2 in the second case, and waiting until we served him with a court order salary garnishment, did he pay.....plus court costs and interest.....total time, 8 months......
 
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Stingray.Don

Member
Apr 13, 2020
40
66
Indianapolis
I am sorry, but I do not think it was ever said to me that FSD was loaded as a demo. Tesla said "You did not pay for it" without specifying any details.
Removing anything after the sale happens (Tesla to 3rd party dealer) at least is unethical. I am not a lawyer but I think it is illegal. What is not true?

Your car did not have FSD when you purchased it. You originally stated that you purchased the car on 12/20/19 and the feature had been removed on 11/18/19, more than a month before you bought it. The used car dealer sold it to you as having FSD when it did not. Tesla still stepped up and gave you FSD, yet you are still whining about it over a year later. Tesla only removes features if they were never purchased or if they own the car. Tesla gave you FSD as a goodwill gesture. Time to move on.
 

2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
2,101
2,789
USA
in small claims court, attorneys are not allowed to be present and represent their clients......the only exception is, if there was a decision by the judge against them in a small claims court action and a properly executed appeal was generated by the one who lost......at least in California.....I know because I had a rented home that sustained over 10k damage....the renter tried to have his girlfriend attorney help during the case and the judge almost threw her out.....he lost and on the last day, he appealed......then had 2 postponements, failed on the 3rd try......with the 3 postponements in the first case, 2 in the second case, and waiting until we served him with a court order salary garnishment, did he pay.....plus court costs and interest.....total time, 8 months......
yes. I meant "have their lawyer file the motion to move from Small Claims to Civil court". lawyers in my state cant represent in small claims either. So that even adds ANOTHER hassle for the large company, as the additional motion would have to be filed to request movement from Small claims.

Landlord/Tenant disputes are notoriously a pain. Cant compare that to a small claims against a major large company. Often has much different results assuming you have a very strong case...
 

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
104
109
USA
Your car did not have FSD when you purchased it. You originally stated that you purchased the car on 12/20/19 and the feature had been removed on 11/18/19, more than a month before you bought it. The used car dealer sold it to you as having FSD when it did not. Tesla still stepped up and gave you FSD, yet you are still whining about it over a year later. Tesla only removes features if they were never purchased or if they own the car. Tesla gave you FSD as a goodwill gesture. Time to move on.
Please re-read the initial post. You have mixed the events and dates. The idea of Tesla is doing or can do something wrong is unacceptable for hard fanboys like yourself.
I love how the car drives, every second of it.
I'm pretty sure 90% of people on this forum can say - Love the car, hate the company.
 
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Stingray.Don

Member
Apr 13, 2020
40
66
Indianapolis
Please re-read the initial post. You have mixed the events and dates. The idea of Tesla is doing or can do something wrong is unacceptable for hard fanboys like yourself.
I love how the car drives, every second of it.
I'm pretty sure 90% of people on this forum can say - Love the car, hate the company.

Here is the link to the post on the Tesla forum where you stated that FSD was removed a month BEFORE you bought the car. The used car dealer claimed it had FSD when it did not. Tesla stepped up and gave you FSD.

 

tccartier

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Oct 27, 2015
989
1,037
AZ.
Here is the link to the post on the Tesla forum where you stated that FSD was removed a month BEFORE you bought the car. The used car dealer claimed it had FSD when it did not. Tesla stepped up and gave you FSD.


That explains it, if the car at any point gets back into Tesla's possession rest assured they will decontent the car in so far as they can before they resell it in order to have an opportunity to sell those upgrades again to the next customer that buys the car. Case closed 👍🏽
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,990
13,777
California
Here is the link to the post on the Tesla forum where you stated that FSD was removed a month BEFORE you bought the car. The used car dealer claimed it had FSD when it did not. Tesla stepped up and gave you FSD.

It takes a special type of troll to tell someone else that their own first-hand experience and sequence of events is factually wrong.

@MS-Alec was quite clear in his descriptions that the car had FSD when he took delivery of it. It disappeared after the fact.

Your speculation-presented-as-fact insistence that the car never had FSD to begin with and instead was subject to some magical "demo that never got uninstalled" is, to put it nicely, complete manure.

If Tesla wants to de-content their trade-ins in some shady double-dipping attempt, they need to be competent enough to do it before the car changes hands. They're obviously not that competent.
 

MS-Alec

Member
Dec 26, 2019
104
109
USA
That explains it, if the car at any point gets back into Tesla's possession rest assured they will decontent the car in so far as they can before they resell it in order to have an opportunity to sell those upgrades again to the next customer that buys the car. Case closed 👍🏽
Once again - Tesla conducted an audit in November , 3 days after the property (car) left their legal possession. Removed FSD a month later, in December. Case closed. Move on.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,990
13,777
California
That explains it, if the car at any point gets back into Tesla's possession rest assured they will decontent the car in so far as they can before they resell it in order to have an opportunity to sell those upgrades again to the next customer that buys the car. Case closed 👍🏽
If they actually did it "before they resell it" nobody would be any the wiser and situations like this wouldn't exist.
 
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Stingray.Don

Member
Apr 13, 2020
40
66
Indianapolis
That explains it, if the car at any point gets back into Tesla's possession rest assured they will decontent the car in so far as they can before they resell it in order to have an opportunity to sell those upgrades again to the next customer that buys the car. Case closed 👍🏽

Another false narrative. Look at all of the used cars for sale on the Tesla website that have FSD. Just because Tesla can remove a feature of a car they own doesn’t mean that they typically do, as you implied.

As we have seen with several threads over at the Tesla forum, when Tesla removes FSD it is typically because the car came equipped with FSD and the original buyer declined to purchase the feature. In some cases, Tesla failed to remove the feature until months or over a year later after an audit. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Tesla for the delay in removing the feature, as happened with your car prior to your purchase. However, presenting false narratives just because you “hate the company” is not fair. And stating the facts does not make me a “fanboy”. It just means that I am fair minded.
 

Pyre

Member
Apr 10, 2021
296
154
Syracuse, NY
in small claims court, attorneys are not allowed to be present and represent their clients......the only exception is, if there was a decision by the judge against them in a small claims court action and a properly executed appeal was generated by the one who lost......at least in California.....I know because I had a rented home that sustained over 10k damage....the renter tried to have his girlfriend attorney help during the case and the judge almost threw her out.....he lost and on the last day, he appealed......then had 2 postponements, failed on the 3rd try......with the 3 postponements in the first case, 2 in the second case, and waiting until we served him with a court order salary garnishment, did he pay.....plus court costs and interest.....total time, 8 months......
Thats pretty quick I would say
 
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tccartier

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Oct 27, 2015
989
1,037
AZ.
Once again - Tesla conducted an audit in November , 3 days after the property (car) left their legal possession. Removed FSD a month later, in December. Case closed. Move on.

Well I don't know exactly when the title changed hands from Tesla to the third party that this person bought the vehicle from do you? But I do know that it's not unusual for them to remove such features on vehicles that they get back in their possession before they resell them when that occurs I don't know who knows with over-the-air capabilities it can likely be done anytime.

And we're all aware of the impeccable reputation of third party or "any party" car dealers. I'm certain none of them have ever misled a customer to get a sale.
Another false narrative. Look at all of the used cars for sale on the Tesla website that have FSD. Just because Tesla can remove a feature of a car they own doesn’t mean that they typically do, as you implied.

As we have seen with several threads over at the Tesla forum, when Tesla removes FSD it is typically because the car came equipped with FSD and the original buyer declined to purchase the feature. In some cases, Tesla failed to remove the feature until months or over a year later after an audit. It is perfectly legitimate to criticize Tesla for the delay in removing the feature, as happened with your car prior to your purchase. However, presenting false narratives just because you “hate the company” is not fair. And stating the facts does not make me a “fanboy”. It just means that I am fair minded.

Well advertising and selling a car with an additional feature on their own website would be to their own benefit. So that doesn't surprise me of course no news there. But I would bet that a vehicle that left their possession through an auction house wouldn't get the same treatment as one that they were selling retail themselves directly to the Individual buyer.
 

Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,513
3,630
Los Gatos, CA
But I do know that it's not unusual for them to remove such features on vehicles that they get back in their possession before they resell them when that occurs I don't know who knows with over-the-air capabilities it can likely be done anytime.

I think this is the crux of the problem and people wouldn't be complaining as much if they actually did like you said.
 
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