Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]

[Battpower]

unlimited supercharging and EAP/FSD typically don't transfer through a third party sale.

FUSC - agree, has changed a few times, but currently new MS have free Supercharging for first owner. Not transferable.

EAP - no first hand knowledge, but this thread suggests Tesla trying to dump EAP.

FSD - significant and expensive add-on sold effectively as an intrinsic inseparable part of car attached to VIN number with current new cars having HW3 is part of the car and its value.

What evidence for FSD not remaining with vehicle when sold? Lease residuals and balloon payments will all be based on full price of car if it is originally purchased with FSD option, so those cars going to auction can't just lose that value.

 

[Az_Rael]

You folks are making wrong assumptions about that 2017 window sticker not including FSD.


I DID buy EAP and FSD in 2017 and here is what my window sticker says. Full Self Driving Capability = FSD in 2017.

Edit: and I can confirm that Tesla does have my car configured correctly in their system, because I am scheduled to get my HW3 upgrade in a few weeks included as part of my prior FSD purchase.

 

[Az_Rael]

3k does not imo at the moment relate to FSD. Why add FSD to a car that already has the same features? What does this 3k actually relate to on this car? Was FSDC a prerequisite for having EAP?

No, the $3000 was payment for the FSD software option. As to why we would be dumb enough to pay Tesla for unreleased software in 2017 that still hasn’t released any features beyond EAP, well, that is a different thread.

 

[Battpower]

You folks are making wrong assumptions about that 2017 window sticker not including FSD.


I DID buy EAP and FSD in 2017 and here is what my window sticker says. Full Self Driving Capability = FSD in 2017.

View attachment 507063

I agree that based on sticker wording, discussions here are partly based on flawed interpretation. But MS and M3 are not the same, surely?

 

[Battpower]

No, the $3000 was payment for the FSD software option. As to why we would be dumb enough to pay Tesla for unreleased software in 2017 that still hasn’t released any features beyond EAP, well, that is a different thread.

I don't know. Yes, could be exactly as you say and clearly was for your car but you have M3. What you actually got delivered against these terms, and for many 'have yet to have delivered' is so unclear.

 

[MS-Alec]

All,
This threat would not exist if Tesla left the car AS-IS after it was sold to 3rd dealership!
I made a decision to buy this particular vehicle based on knowledge and visual representation (I knew that if the Autopilot menu has Summon and NoA it is EAP, and pictures published by the dealer proved it)

Yes, I might not properly use terms FSD and FSDC since Tesla changed how they call those feature several times as well as what is included.
EAP was $4K and was a prerequisite to pay $3K more for FSD.

In my opinion, FSD always was a promise to enable it once it is legal and to get your car up to par for this ability (whatever it takes -replace the hardware, update software, etc.) This promise would put Tesla into a very interesting and expensive position.

According to service center employees and mobile tech, I would be downgraded to basic AP anyway once the ownership transferred to my name. This what Tesla quietly does from mid-2018

Tesla stated several times that all purchased options are tied to VIN and cannot be removed. I even tried to purchase a used car directly from tesla website and asked to remove FSD and was told "Unfortunately, this cannot be done since this feature is tied to the VIN"
So, Tesla changes the story to whatever will bring more money into the house.

 

[PACEMD]

What evidence for FSD not remaining with vehicle when sold? Lease residuals and balloon payments will all be based on full price of car if it is originally purchased with FSD option, so those cars going to auction can't just lose that value.

I stated that it's my understanding that unlimited supercharging and EAP/FSD typically don't transfer through third-party sales. Not that I had definitive evidence of EAP/FSD never transferring, and in particular I mentioned this may be different with private sales. That understanding comes from reading the TMC forum. But answer that question for yourself as you are able. Let us know if you find evidence of EAP/FSD being routinely maintained with third-party sales. A poster above stated EAP transferred with their used purchase but did not mention from whom he bought the vehicle. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, just that It's my understanding that generally not.

 

[Battpower]

All,
This threat would not exist if Tesla left the car AS-IS after it was sold to 3rd dealership!
I made a decision to buy this particular vehicle based on knowledge and visual representation (I knew that if the Autopilot menu has Summon and NoA it is EAP, and pictures published by the dealer proved it)
View attachment 507059

Yes, I might not properly use terms FSD and FSDC since Tesla changed how they call those feature several times as well as what is included.
EAP was $4K and was a prerequisite to pay $3K more for FSD.

In my opinion, FSD always was a promise to enable it once it is legal and to get your car up to par for this ability (whatever it takes -replace the hardware, update software, etc.) This promise would put Tesla into a very interesting and expensive position.

According to service center employees and mobile tech, I would be downgraded to basic AP anyway once the ownership transferred to my name. This what Tesla quietly does from mid-2018

Tesla stated several times that all purchased options are tied to VIN and cannot be removed. I even tried to purchase a used car directly from tesla website and asked to remove FSD and was told "Unfortunately, this cannot be done since this feature is tied to the VIN"
So, Tesla changes the story to whatever will bring more money into the house.

Forget symantics about what is fsd / FSDC / eap etc.

Every Tesla owner with anything other than no AP or very early car who has a financial interest at stake should want everything above in this post addressed.

Only by complete fluke am I not in exactly the same situation as OP so I know exactly just how close these issues could be to all Tesla owners. If nothing else, it is an indicator of how we could well be treated in future.

 

[Battpower]

answer that question for yourself as you are able.

I keep trying! Not at all easy.

 

[Az_Rael]

I agree that based on sticker wording, discussions here are partly based on flawed interpretation. But MS and M3 are not the same, surely?

They were the same options back then as they are today for both the 3 and the S. The $3000 price was for the software, all 2017 Model S’s came with the FSD hardware because back then there was no such thing as HW3, all cars from 2016 and on were full self driving capable.

Here is a window sticker from a 2018 S without FSD:

And a 2017 X, also without FSD

 

[PACEMD]

I keep trying! Not at all easy.

You said a mouth full there.........

 

[Battpower]

They were the same options back then as they are today for both the 3 and the S. The $3000 price was for the software, all 2017 Model S’s came with the FSD hardware because back then there was no such thing as HW3, all cars from 2016 and on were full self driving capable.

Here is a window sticker from a 2018 S without FSD:


View attachment 507065

I wonder what happens if an owner buys 'their' car when it comes off lease. Change of ownership? Kind of trade sale? That would be a real punch in the gut for someone if $8k value that you had been paying interest on just disappeared!

 

[PACEMD]

I wonder what happens if an owner buys 'their' car when it comes off lease. Change of ownership? Kind of trade sale? That would be a real punch in the gut for someone if $8k that you had been paying interest on just disappeared!

Well, at minimum you get that in writing from Tesla before you purchase FSD on a lease you might even remotely consider buying.

 

[brkaus]

You're losing me. At the end of the day, his car's abilities were limited after Tesla discovered that he purchased a third-party. Tesla's FSD 3k was not for the cameras or hardware it was to be able to get the feature working when avail. You're confusing me. I think he's upset about the entire ordeal not just about losing EAP.

At the end of the day, Tesla limited the cars abilities in a delayed fashion after they had possession of and then sold the car to the 3rd party dealer.

It wasn’t an arbitrary 3rd party transaction.

Shady, yes. But during the time Tesla has ownership they could have done whatever they wanted. The fact that they delayed makes it a problem.

 

[Az_Rael]

I wonder what happens if an owner buys 'their' car when it comes off lease. Change of ownership? Kind of trade sale? That would be a real punch in the gut for someone if $8k value that you had been paying interest on just disappeared!

I have never leased a car, but I assume it would be similar to when you pay off the loan from a bank. The leasing company signs the title over to you, and Tesla isn’t involved. (Most leases of that era were done through a partner bank) The Tesla account also wouldn’t change, so I assume you keep the options.

I really think this whole fiasco only applies to cars that were traded in to Tesla. If I sell my FSD/EAP car to Audi as a trade in, Tesla shouldn’t be able to reach out and take those options away from the Audi dealer. I never signed any EULA and they are listed without any caveats as options on my car in my purchase contract.

I don’t know how Tesla documents the lifetime non transferable supercharging option, that would be an interesting example.

 

[Battpower]

Why 'but.....'?

They could have done whatever, but they didn't.

After it's sold, it must be too late otherwise we should all start fearing an audit of our cars.

 

[P85DBeast]

At the end of the day, Tesla limited the cars abilities in a delayed fashion after they had possession of and then sold the car to the 3rd party dealer.

It wasn’t an arbitrary 3rd party transaction.

Shady, yes. But during the time Tesla has ownership they could have done whatever they wanted. The fact that they delayed makes it a problem.

Overall Tesla was wrong in the situation. As you said "during the time Tesla had ownership they could've done whatever" they should've removed it BEFORE it was sold to the auction (or wherever). The problem is that they removed it after OP purchased the vehicle and (I assume) was using the features beforehand. OP is the owner of the car now and Tesla should've backed off and left FSD as-is and not be shady and "deactivate" the software. I don't see what makes Tesla so ill to third party buyers and half the third party cars are in far better condition than their used cars...just a typical "buy from us to get this and this".

 

[Battpower]

I really think this whole fiasco only applies to cars that were traded in to Tesla.

You would hope so. But it keeps getting discussed along with FUSC which I think is accepted does not pass through resellers but for earlier cars it would pass on a private sale.

There are quite a lot of posts suggesting that eap / FSD or any other soft-benefit eg: charging is stripped on sale through any dealer. Private sales treated differently.

What a nightmare if your car's entitlement to various add-ons required detailed knowledge and proof of any and all previous sales of the car and the status of the selling parties..... to determine if your car is entitled to FUSC handed down by private sale or stripped due to sale at auction or 3rd party dealer some time in the past.

And.... you only find out at the point that Tesla's auditing team find out and decide to pull the benefit.

If an owner had been not applying updates for some time, such a pending audit downgrade could be hanging around for any future owner who decides to allow updates.

 

[Az_Rael]

You would hope so. But it keeps getting discussed along with FUSC which I think is accepted does not pass through resellers but for earlier cars it would pass on a private sale.

There are quite a lot of posts suggesting that eap / FSD or any other soft-benefit eg: charging is stripped on sale through any dealer. Private sales treated differently.

Free unlimited supercharging is a little different case, as it is really a service Tesla is selling you, allowing you to charge at their stations for free vs software intrinsic to the car functions like EAP and FSD. Tesla also made it clear to the original owner at the time of purchase that it either was or was not transferable upon sale, although they have done an amazing job of making a huge mess of that for the used market.

My P85D has transferable lifetime supercharging, but Tesla removed that verbiage from my account, so I no longer could assure a buyer that they would get to keep it and honestly, I am not sure Tesla would transfer it anymore. But, other than the original S40 and S60, the cost was included as part of the vehicle price, not an extra paid option, so putting a price on free supercharging has always been nebulous.

 

[Battpower]

Tesla also made it clear to the original owner at the time of purchase that it either was or was not transferable upon sale, although they have done an amazing job of making a huge mess of that for the used market.

This is what makes me concerned to see the ESP (Freudian slip! I could do with some ESP and so could my MS!) EAP / FSD situation clarified, especially in light of this thread. Personally I agree completely with your post, but reasonable, common sense and decent thing are not to be assumed dealing with Tesla. Which is a shame as they often do the right thing but it gets lost in this noise.