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Tesla YANKED FSD option without notice - Class Action lawsuit? Any Lawyers here? [Resolved]

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I believe this has been confirmed:
If you trade your Tesla into Tesla and then Tesla resells it directly as part of their used program or auctions it to another dealer, the features will be removed.

Except we know that's not true.

Because Tesla has current used cars listed with FSD.

If they uniformly removed it that would not be possible.

They DO as a policy uniformly remove transferable FUSC (and will remove free lifetime data) from cars that had it if they take ownership of the car again though.


If you trade your Tesla into Toyota for a new Prius (maybe because you got hit in the head or something) and Toyota sells the car to another buyer, the features (FUSC definitely and possibly FSD) will be removed. This car would not pass through Tesla's hands at all in this scenario.

We know that's not true either.

FUSC for older Teslas (2016 and older I think in most cases) goes with the car in such sales.

FUSC for newer ones are tied to the original owner so those aren't "removed" so much as they simply don't apply to any future owner regardless. But that's never "on the car" anyway. Supercharger billing is tied to the VIN on the Tesla server side.

I think there was some confusion from buyers of used 2017 and newer cars because the dealer would tell them it had free supercharging (since they got it that way) but once the new owner got it they of course didn't have it since it never went to the new owner regardless of channel of sale for cars 2017 and newer.... that was just ignorance on the part of the dealer (and buyer who didn't do enough research on the cutoff date)


And I'm unaware of Tesla ever removing FSD from a car traded into a non-Tesla dealer where the original owner had actually purchased it (ie not having passed into Tesla ownership since originally sold).

Can you cite/source any documented cases of this?
 
I think there was some confusion from buyers of used 2017 and newer cars because the dealer would tell them it had free supercharging (since they got it that way) but once the new owner got it they of course didn't have it since it never went to the new owner regardless of channel of sale for cars 2017 and newer.... that was just ignorance on the part of the dealer (and buyer who didn't do enough research on the cutoff date)
2017 cars (not including the non-performance 100D) that were ordered by January 15, 2017 still had FUSC that was transferable. I've seen reports of these cars being delivered to Europe as late at September 2017.

Any non-performance 100D ordered before January 15, 2017 didn't originally include any FUSC but halfway through 2017, Tesla brought it back for all S & X but it wasn't transferable. Tesla retroactively then gave non-transferable FUSC to those non-performance 100Ds as well.

Anyhow, there are plenty of 2017 vehicles with transferable FUSC.
 
2017 cars (not including the non-performance 100D) that were ordered by January 15, 2017 still had FUSC that was transferable. I've seen reports of these cars being delivered to Europe as late at September 2017.

Any non-performance 100D ordered before January 15, 2017 didn't originally include any FUSC but halfway through 2017, Tesla brought it back for all S & X but it wasn't transferable. Tesla retroactively then gave non-transferable FUSC to those non-performance 100Ds as well.

Anyhow, there are plenty of 2017 vehicles with transferable FUSC.



I did say " (2016 and older I think in most cases) "

Thanks for clarifying the cases outside of that though... surprising how late in the year January orders were getting delivered... also speaks to the (relatively) small window where you could order and get both transferable FUSC and EAP/FSD on the same car.... (though they'd still be HW2.0 and MCU1)....
 
I did say " (2016 and older I think in most cases) "

Thanks for clarifying the cases outside of that though... surprising how late in the year January orders were getting delivered... also speaks to the (relatively) small window where you could order and get both transferable FUSC and EAP/FSD on the same car.... (though they'd still be HW2.0 and MCU1)....
Exactly. We originally had two S90Ds on order because we wanted AP2 and FUSC. Eventually, we changed one of the S90Ds to be an S100D even though there was no FUSC. We were glad that they brought FUSC back (non-transferable) a few months later and gave it to us on that car retroactively.

We sold the S90D last year without ever getting FSD on it. We're still waiting for the FSD (and MCU?) upgrade on the S100D...
 
FUSC definitely and possibly FSD) will be removed

As per other posts here, I see no evidence of FSD being routinely removed from cars that were sold with it or that had a paid option added. I have specifically seen Tesla (in the UK) selling (CPO) used cars specifically with FSD included. However, I am not seeing any similar cars from Tesla with EAP, so that may have been dropped around the time eap got 'renamed' as FSD. What they might / will do in future is anyone's guess but for now, I think current FSD product is safe and resellable.

And I'm unaware of Tesla ever removing FSD from a car traded into a non-Tesla dealer where the original owner had actually purchased it (ie not having passed into Tesla ownership since originally sold).

Can you cite/source any documented cases of this?

I agree and, yes please to citation, specifically relating to FSD. FUSC does not imo compare with FSD. FUSC and premium connectivity are not like a single $$$ purchase.

This may have already been suggested, but what would make perfect sense is that once you have a paid version of FSD, if you trade the car back to Tesla, their price / allowance specifically gives you the option of having FSD on your new car at no extra cost (then they can strip it off your old one quite reasonably, and offer your traded car at a lower price. Seems wrong to depreciate the value of FSD along with the value of the car, especially if Elon keeps pushing up the cost of FSD if / when it performs better.
 
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I believe this has been confirmed:
If you trade your Tesla into Tesla and then Tesla resells it directly as part of their used program or auctions it to another dealer, the features will be removed.

If you trade your Tesla into Toyota for a new Prius (maybe because you got hit in the head or something) and Toyota sells the car to another buyer, the features (FUSC definitely and possibly FSD) will be removed. This car would not pass through Tesla's hands at all in this scenario.

As of right now I don't believe a completely private transaction between two people has resulted in the loss of features.
The original owner of my model S, 2016 75D with UFSC and FSD, traded it for a new Mercedes (to each his own). I purchased car from dealer. Purchased car in November 2018. When I had Tesla add it to my account they asked the question if it was purchased from individual or dealer. I answered truthfully. The Tesla app under upgrades purchased list auto pilot and FSD. I've never been charged for SCing. YMMV.
 
The original owner of my model S, 2016 75D with UFSC and FSD, traded it for a new Mercedes (to each his own). I purchased car from dealer. Purchased car in November 2018. When I had Tesla add it to my account they asked the question if it was purchased from individual or dealer. I answered truthfully. The Tesla app under upgrades purchased list auto pilot and FSD. I've never been charged for SCing. YMMV.

Why Tesla should even care about how it was purchased?
 
Perhaps an interesting data point - I puchased a 2016 P100D S from Tesla last saturday with FUSC. For whatever reason, I was unable to place the order using the same email address my X is on, so I used one of my other ones. After delivery, I had them move the S from that email account to the one my X is on. FUSC was removed during the transfer. I saw that in the account and my delivery advisor had to submit a ticket to have it restored, which it has been.
 
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@Tam, that's a very insightful observation. And likely more accurate than my guess.

When I purchased my '17 S, I paid for EAP and FSD. I believe its morphed into AP and FSD with a more current update since I bought it. I don't know which one it is, but I am getting the same version updates that 2018, '18 and '20 are getting. Of course because I have AP 2.0 HW, I am not seeing the same features that AP 2.5 gets. But I believe the EAP is now AP.

But let's go back and talk about the Auction house Tesla. I think there's parts of the story that Jalopnik didn't research and should have before they stirred this pot.

1. They should/could have connected the dots to the original owner/first owner and verified that owner paid for EAP/FSD or had it on trial/test. Maybe it is/was one of the TMC OPs that have posted about their similar experiences. They could promise not to reveal which, but could at least checked their story against their truth about this car.

2. I think this was an unfortunate series of disassociated events that caused that last owner to lose AP/FSD. Here's how. He reported (via the Jalopnik) that AP/FSD disappeared as a result of a Dec OTA update. That does not sound like someone at Tesla purposely drilled down into the history of that car and singled it out to disable AP/FSD because someone had it after Tesla sold it. Because it was associated with an OTA update, I think that OTA has a subroutine in the software that compared the feature codes for each car against a database of paid for or cars without paid for AP/FSD and when it found one that was not paid for/trial, it flipped a software switch and disabled it. I recall reading just yesterday on the TM forum of someone that was complaining their 3 had AP/FSD for more than a year and suddenly after the same Dec update, his AP/FSD was gone/not working. So since a couple of owners have stated the loss was triggered by OTA, seems to me it was an automated process. So the innocent last owner was simply wrong place in ownership timeline to be impacted.

The person at Tesla that was selecting or keypunching VINs into a database or interfacing the subroutine to existing list of AP/FSD trial/permanent cars probably didn't even know what the consequences were while working. Maybe doesn't even know this happened.

I wonder how many Tesla owners did not pay for FSD and it was enabled for months/years and they didn't use it, ignored it, didn't care and now that its disabled will not miss it or notice its gone. If you are one of these owners, will you please hold up your hand? LOL.

I wonder, had the used car dealer or the auction house still owned this car would we have heard about the loss of AP/FSD on that car? Probably not. Its even unlikely that while owned by the auction house or used car dealer that it was connected to WiFi. I don't recall seeing how long the last owner had it before that Dec OTA changed his car, but he's just unlucky.

We heard about this because of the Jalopnik because of a private owner? Would it have been noticed or skipped if it was owned by the used car dealer?

I think it was is unfortunate these events collided like they did in a negative way. Its not a irreversible big deal though. Tesla is not losing millions if they just re-enable the software on this car or for that matter on others that lost it after the OTA update. I think they should simply turn it back on. I believe they will when it finally comes visible to those in a position to do so.

Raising hand - I was one of those people when I purchased my used Model 3 back in April of 2019. I had driven one probably 3 months prior to my purchase. I was going through a divorce, an opportunity arose to sell my current vehicle and a used Model 3 with 200 miles popped up at a local dealership here in Eastern North Carolina. Everything just seemed to fall in place at the right time. I called them up to get the specs on it. You could hear the guy on the phone calling out to another guy, hey is that fancy Tesla front or rear wheel drive...oh boy I thought to myself. It had been won from a local contest and was traded in there, they didn't really know anything about it. I drove up to take a look at it. The sticker on the window was the typical ICE, power window, locks, seats, etc. (nothing listed about EAP or anything). It was a Mid-Range. So I took it for a drive. I knew a little bit from my previous test drive, Autopilot engaged, sweet. Okay, let's try auto-lane change, yup, that worked as well. Later at the dealer, went through the menu, summon and Navigate on Autopilot were there too. Negotiated a price with the dealer, left with my new Tesla. Fast forward to September for 2019, during a supercharging stop in South Carolina, I got back in my car to find Navigate on Autopilot wasn't working. Took me a while to realize that auto-lane change wasn't either. Finally got a hold of Tesla support, the original owner never purchased FSD. They had done an audit and removed it. It had been in demo mode from the time of the original owner purchased it. The representative told me that it has supposed to have been turned off when the original owner declined the purchased, but they forgot to turn it off. Autopilot was paid for so I do still have that. Tesla rep basically told me tough, pay an additional 7k. I or the dealer should have known to call Tesla to verify that the software features were supposed to be there.
 
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Hi Alec. Almost the same thing has just happened to me. Purchased a 2017 MX 100D from vroom with FSD. The car was delivered a couple days ago and I took pictures of everything, including the software screen that clearly stated: "Full Self Driving Compatibility - Included Package and Premium Connectivity - Included Package." So, I accepted the car. I then submitted the account transfer request (via email, because the website form is currently broken). The next day I went to drive the car and FSD was gone, I looked at the software screen again and could not believe it, now says: "Autopilot - Included Package." I relied on the information presented on this screen, now overnight, Tesla has removed a $10k feature with no explanation. It feels like they broke into my garage and stole the wheels off my car. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hi Alec. Almost the same thing has just happened to me. Purchased a 2017 MX 100D from vroom with FSD. The car was delivered a couple days ago and I took pictures of everything, including the software screen that clearly stated: "Full Self Driving Compatibility - Included Package and Premium Connectivity - Included Package." So, I accepted the car. I then submitted the account transfer request (via email, because the website form is currently broken). The next day I went to drive the car and FSD was gone, I looked at the software screen again and could not believe it, now says: "Autopilot - Included Package." I relied on the information presented on this screen, now overnight, Tesla has removed a $10k feature with no explanation. It feels like they broke into my garage and stole the wheels off my car. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
lots of posts on the subject, but short version: Issue is between you and Vroom, is my understanding. If they contractually sold you a car promising you that option would remain enabled after you purchased/took ownership, legally, you may have a leg to stand on that they need to pay Tesla to have it restored.
 
Purchased a 2017 MX 100D from vroom with FSD.

Do you know where Vroom got it from? Did they buy it from Tesla at an auction or did they acquire it from a private party? (If they got it from a private party then Tesla likely needs to turn the FSD back on; I don't remember the dates for when premium connectivity transfers vs. when it doesn't.)

I took pictures of everything, including the software screen that clearly stated: "Full Self Driving Compatibility - Included Package and Premium Connectivity - Included Package." So, I accepted the car.

Yeah, that is an issue, since you can't go by what that screens says. Since some things transfer and others don't, and the screen doesn't give you that information.
 
lots of posts on the subject, but short version: Issue is between you and Vroom, is my understanding. If they contractually sold you a car promising you that option would remain enabled after you purchased/took ownership, legally, you may have a leg to stand on that they need to pay Tesla to have it restored.
I agree, while completely not siding with Tesla, I think them doing that is a complete scumbag move, the issue here would be with vroom.

This is interesting because some dealers are obviously charging a higher price for the vehicle because FSD option is with the vehicle, however if Tesla is removing the option once the car is purchased then the dealer is on the hook to restore that option
 
Hi Alec. Almost the same thing has just happened to me. Purchased a 2017 MX 100D from vroom with FSD. The car was delivered a couple days ago and I took pictures of everything, including the software screen that clearly stated: "Full Self Driving Compatibility - Included Package and Premium Connectivity - Included Package." So, I accepted the car. I then submitted the account transfer request (via email, because the website form is currently broken). The next day I went to drive the car and FSD was gone, I looked at the software screen again and could not believe it, now says: "Autopilot - Included Package." I relied on the information presented on this screen, now overnight, Tesla has removed a $10k feature with no explanation. It feels like they broke into my garage and stole the wheels off my car. Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
I’d submit a service request to Tesla with the screenshot. They can look it up and either restore it or tell you the car should never have had it. Then you can go after the seller.
 
I’d blame Tesla here if Vroom had the car with the feature. If Tesla wants to remove it, it’s their choice. But they better have the car in their hands.
I agree, all vroom did was show pictures of the car they were selling. The features were evident in the pictures. And when the car came, I confirmed by looking at the software screen: FSD - Included Package. Tesla is in control of this screen and information, not vroom. Tesla is the one stating that this car has FSD, not vroom. Mistake, bug, whatever they want to claim, the fact is that the car had this feature when I purchased it and now it doesn't because Tesla has taken it away, not vroom. It should be illegal for them to remove something after a sale (especially with no due process or explanation.) I relied on this information when making the purchase (just like looking at pictures of the wheels). This is their software, they control it, and they should be held accountable for it, even if it was some kind of mistake on their end.
 
I agree, all vroom did was show pictures of the car they were selling. The features were evident in the pictures. And when the car came, I confirmed by looking at the software screen: FSD - Included Package. Tesla is in control of this screen and information, not vroom. Tesla is the one stating that this car has FSD, not vroom. Mistake, bug, whatever they want to claim, the fact is that the car had this feature when I purchased it and now it doesn't because Tesla has taken it away, not vroom. It should be illegal for them to remove something after a sale (especially with no due process or explanation.) I relied on this information when making the purchase (just like looking at pictures of the wheels). This is their software, they control it, and they should be held accountable for it, even if it was some kind of mistake on their end.

I'm going by the fact that you have pictures that you took after you picked it up. A photo provided by Vroom, to me, just says vroom is advertising it. If that was the case, your complaint is with vroom as you have no way to tell what happened or where vroom got the photos. They delivered a car to you that didn't match their advertising.

But, in this case, it's Tesla (and it's clearly in Vroom's best interest for their customers to help).
 
I'm going by the fact that you have pictures that you took after you picked it up. A photo provided by Vroom, to me, just says vroom is advertising it. If that was the case, your complaint is with vroom as you have no way to tell what happened or where vroom got the photos. They delivered a car to you that didn't match their advertising.

But, in this case, it's Tesla (and it's clearly in Vroom's best interest for their customers to help).

No, it came with FSD. I took the picture of the software screen the day the car arrived, along with many others to document the condition of the car.
 
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