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TeslaFi or Not? That is the Question
- Thread starter kcroyaljosh
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- teslafi
BR666T
Member
I was worried as well, but decided the information provided is just too interesting. Also, this page Security - TeslaFi.com regarding security comforted me. Using AWS for the primary data store should be very secure. Not that there aren't potential issues, but they appear to take security seriously.
"At TeslaFi we take security very seriously and continue to look for opportunities to make improvements.
Below if a summary of how TeslaFi obtains and secures the data that it collects.
Hosting:
- TeslaFi uses Amazon’s AWS platform and infrastructure with two factor authentication for access. Cloud Security – Amazon Web Services (AWS)
- All data is stored in an encrypted RDS database that is not publicly accessible. Amazon Relational Database Service (RDS) – AWS
- SSH Keys are required to access all servers and IP restrictions further limit access to only authorized developers.
- All servers are routinely scanned by Amazon Inspector to identify vulnerabilities or deviations from best practices. Amazon Inspector - Amazon Web Services (AWS)
I have a Linux machine available and installed TeslaMate on it. Took way less than 10 minutes and now I have my data hosted on my own server. I understand many won't have a Linux machine available, but it works fine on a Pi too.
Google Cloud is free.
I have relocated my instance to it.
How to setup and run TeslaMate for free on Google Cloud - TeslaEV.co.uk
Kimmi
Member
BUMP. Waiting for delivery of a 2021Model 3 LR in the next two weeks? Any new recommendations for info software? All I want is to accurately track the cost of electricity coming from the Tesla Wall Connector into the battery.
vogz
Member
I had TeslaFi originally. Now I use the Stats app on iOS. It gives me the ability to track my charging costs, battery degradation, plus lots of other things. It also provides more remote controls of the car than the Tesla app does, and scheduled warm ups/cool downs, etc. Finally, it's a simple one time cost of $40 vs. a monthly fee and all in an iPhone app vs. having to log in from an internet browser.
This all assumes you have an iPhone. It's not available on Android.
And for a counter point, you likely want to at least read and consider a thread one of our members started here about their digging into the API and the risks of any third party app.
PSA: Don't use third-party apps and services, period.
Everyone needs to make their own decision, but it should be done with as much information as possible.
Kimmi
Member
[QUOTE="jjrandorin, post: 5217895, member:
PSA: Don't use third-party [/QUOTE]
Makes sense to me. Maybe Tesla will add a way to track energy cost in a future update?
PSA: Don't use third-party [/QUOTE]
Makes sense to me. Maybe Tesla will add a way to track energy cost in a future update?
I wouldnt hold my breath on tesla doing anything like that. If you want that data, especially in some form of automated collection, you likely need to consider one of these type apps (like teslafi, states, teslamate, etc). Lots of people use them.
I personally dont, especially after reading the information from @camalaio on the topic, but to be clear, this is a choice that everyone needs to make their own decision on this type of thing, and whatever decision they make is the right one for them.
I personally dont, especially after reading the information from @camalaio on the topic, but to be clear, this is a choice that everyone needs to make their own decision on this type of thing, and whatever decision they make is the right one for them.
If all you're looking for is energy tracking, use a dedicated energy meter. Services like TeslaFi cannot track actual energy usage super accurately, and miss out on some things too.
I don't know your charging setup. If it's just a normal 120V outlet, then something like a Kill-A-Watt will do nicely. Otherwise there are other power meters (can be found on Amazon for example) that are surprisingly cheap, certainly cheaper than a multi-year TeslaFi subscription and without the downsides of my thread that was linked.
vogz
Member
If all you're looking for is energy tracking, use a dedicated energy meter. Services like TeslaFi cannot track actual energy usage super accurately, and miss out on some things too.
I don't know your charging setup. If it's just a normal 120V outlet, then something like a Kill-A-Watt will do nicely. Otherwise there are other power meters (can be found on Amazon for example) that are surprisingly cheap, certainly cheaper than a multi-year TeslaFi subscription and without the downsides of my thread that was linked.
To be fair, none of the "downsides" that you allude to in that thread have been realized by anyone using a 3rd party app that we know of.
Which makes sense since businesses that are making money tend to like to stay in the business of making money. Selling log-in data or using it nefariously on their own is a death sentence for any of these companies as soon as the word gets out (and world ALWAYS gets out).
I supposed they could be hacked, but so could Tesla and Tesla has been hacked before. Either way, that's going to be public info very quickly too.
Actually, there was a leak a few months ago. That's all I will say. The fact you don't know about it is intentional, and a huge part of the point I was making in that thread - these things can and do happen without your knowledge, all the time.
Few such events ever get virally public. Fact is, corporations and even individuals don't care what happens. All your can do is try to protect what you hold, and the decision is yours to make if that's worth it.
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vogz
Member
Well how can I argue with that? An assertion made with zero evidence provided. I mean I'd like to take you at your word, but you are indeed a stranger on the internet, which you warned us about in the other thread.
They do when they actually start to affect users, which is the concern here, no?
Well how can I argue with that? An assertion made with zero evidence provided. I mean I'd like to take you at your word, but you are indeed a stranger on the internet, which you warned us about in the other thread.
Yes, absolutely! I don't have a stake in swaying your opinion, and I have some good reasons to not disclose who or how. This isn't my first rodeo in data ethics, and I know there are lines I can't cross without getting more involved than I currently care to. For that, I'm actually a bit sorry. This incident just isn't one of the many hills I'd happily die on
No, they don't. Honestly, I'm not sure how to phrase this without sounding like a lunatic. I get your perspective. If such problems are rampant, why don't we hear about them more?
I'll go back to my point in the linked thread: the worst thing someone with this sort of access could do is reveal they have that access because that may result in the loss of their access. Derived products are better for this reason - behavioural data, etc.
It would take a gray hat individual to do something like taking all the tokens to turn the climate control to max for everyone all at once, or unlock the cars all at once - someone that didn't care about the consequences, but wanted to pull a funny move just for the heck of it. Anyone with actual motivations will be a heck of a lot more careful, whether that's derived products or targeting certain people.
At the end of the day, maybe I'm just a lunatic after all. That's absolutely possible.
I'll encourage that this conversation is picked up in the linked thread if you'd like to continue, but I'd mostly just be re-stating what's already written now.
EDIT: Side note. This is why documentaries like "The Social Dilemma" are both spot on and incredibly annoying. They're painting a picture of the (related) problem, but in a sensationalized way that you'd be forgiven for disapproving of.
vogz
Member
Yes, absolutely! I don't have a stake in swaying your opinion, and I have some good reasons to not disclose who or how. This isn't my first rodeo in data ethics, and I know there are lines I can't cross without getting more involved than I currently care to. For that, I'm actually a bit sorry. This incident just isn't one of the many hills I'd happily die on
No, they don't. Honestly, I'm not sure how to phrase this without sounding like a lunatic. I get your perspective. If such problems are rampant, why don't we hear about them more?
I'll go back to my point in the linked thread: the worst thing someone with this sort of access could do is reveal they have that access because that may result in the loss of their access. Derived products are better for this reason - behavioural data, etc.
It would take a gray hat individual to do something like taking all the tokens to turn the climate control to max for everyone all at once, or unlock the cars all at once - someone that didn't care about the consequences, but wanted to pull a funny move just for the heck of it. Anyone with actual motivations will be a heck of a lot more careful, whether that's derived products or targeting certain people.
At the end of the day, maybe I'm just a lunatic after all. That's absolutely possible.
I'll encourage that this conversation is picked up in the linked thread if you'd like to continue, but I'd mostly just be re-stating what's already written now.
EDIT: Side note. This is why documentaries like "The Social Dilemma" are both spot on and incredibly annoying. They're painting a picture of the (related) problem, but in a sensationalized way that you'd be forgiven for disapproving of.
I'll reply in the other thread.
Kimmi
Member
Back to the original post, power is from a Tesla Wall Connector. Forgive the newbie questions. If it has desmodromic valves I know what to do, electrons; not so much.
So there is no way to see the amount of power consumed from the information on the touch screen?
So there is no way to see the amount of power consumed from the information on the touch screen?
Not really, no. A couple reasons:
- The trip meter tells you battery energy consumption, but only while the car is in Drive. Preheating etc. won't be counted in the trip meter.
- There are charging losses. There's some losses in the conversion from AC to DC power, then there's overhead to run the pumps etc. while charging. This results in a difference in energy from the wall vs. what energy was actually added to the battery (always more from the wall). The car only ever reports net energy added to the battery (i.e. is unaware how much AC energy was used).
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