Looking at tesla's supercharging map, I seriously doubt they will complete what they plan to do by the end of the year. Also looking at supercharge.info, there have been a serious drop in permits and construction. Is this a sign tesla is hording cash to hold out longer? If so this means tesla is starting to hurt for cash.
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Tesla's 2016 supercharging map
- Thread starter No2DinosaurFuel
- Start date
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Relax, this happens every year.
1) Supercharge.info is 100% dependent upon user reports to find stuff. It is very common for Tesla to announce a SpC location going live that no one found before hand (prime example, Yellowstone)
2) Tesla's map has and always will be a "good faith" representation of where things are going, and should never be used as the end-all be-all reference for where things will end up. There are locations there which have been on maps the previous 2 years and are not up yet, likely due to legal or negotiation problems.
3) None of this should be construed as a sign that Tesla has cash flow problems. While we do not know the specifics of each case, there is some evidence that Tesla does not always fund the SpC locations by itself (i.e. some are partnerships with local retailers/merchants or that city in which it is placed). I'm sure the cost per location varies wildly given the tax incentives that may vary from location to location.
4) The SpC network is critical for Tesla to have an upper hand on other EV manufacturers and promote EVs in gneral and has been stated by the company that it will be a priority.
All in all, deployment is going about at the pace most of us here expected.
1) Supercharge.info is 100% dependent upon user reports to find stuff. It is very common for Tesla to announce a SpC location going live that no one found before hand (prime example, Yellowstone)
2) Tesla's map has and always will be a "good faith" representation of where things are going, and should never be used as the end-all be-all reference for where things will end up. There are locations there which have been on maps the previous 2 years and are not up yet, likely due to legal or negotiation problems.
3) None of this should be construed as a sign that Tesla has cash flow problems. While we do not know the specifics of each case, there is some evidence that Tesla does not always fund the SpC locations by itself (i.e. some are partnerships with local retailers/merchants or that city in which it is placed). I'm sure the cost per location varies wildly given the tax incentives that may vary from location to location.
4) The SpC network is critical for Tesla to have an upper hand on other EV manufacturers and promote EVs in gneral and has been stated by the company that it will be a priority.
All in all, deployment is going about at the pace most of us here expected.
Well what got me worried is the major slowdown in terms of permits and constructions. I remember not too long ago, there were tons of permits and constructions all over the USA map. Now it's slowing down quite a bit. Maybe they are shifting their priority to other country. Moreover, the 2016 map has way more chargers than what they currently have now. In previous years, their maps would be much more conservative.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Finding permits and construction is 100% dependent upon us, as users, reporting this info to supercharge.info. There is no magic feed that the website gets from Tesla itself for it to show what is pending. Tesla does not share that info.
There was a similar "drought" back in March/April this year and then all a sudden a bunch of new SpC's popped up on the Tesla map without any of us users finding them in the permitting or constructions phases.
Finding a permit is extremely dependent upon 1) picking the right city to search in and 2) hoping that city has a good records search system. This is not remotely as easy as a Google search, as these things are typically buried, and not publicized.
Finding an active construction site is dependent upon users of this forum (which honestly are probably less than 5% of all Tesla users, which is a small number in and of itself of total drivers) posting that there is active construction at a site.
Ryan MF
Member
How do you figure slowing down on construction? By a quick count I see 16 sites under construction in North America. Without having the stats that is as many as I've ever seen.
Yes no stats record, but I have seen many more constructions and permits across the country around this time last year.
True, we don't have stats on construction and permits, but we do have trends on actual openings. There were 22 SCs opened in the US in June-August of 2015, and there were 27 opened in the same time span in 2016, for an inrease in 23% in the rate of openings.
I was away from staring at the Supercharger map since we saw the Model X and decided against getting one, until a few months later when we decided to get a Model S. I was amazed at the high number under construction when I started looking again. The most I had ever seen before was 9.
I will say, though, that the number under construction is a little misleading, since it often includes a few that are completed except for delays due to factors outside Tesla's control.
The pace of supercharger construction has slowed since earlier this summer. I use the combined "PU.S. ermit" + "Construction" at supercharge.info as a gauge: over 30 is a fast pace, 20-30 is average, and below 20 is slow. We were above 30 earlier this summer, and are at 27 now. 8 of the 14 currently under construction are just waiting on a transformer or testing, so I think the pace will continue to slow down over the next month or two. We can speculate on the reason, but at some point they will ramp up again. Hopefully they will fill in the remaining gaps in the U.S. and Europe by the time the Model 3 arrives.
SpiceWare
Member
As said before, in many ways and in many different topics, that's a meaningless gauge. Those values only show what people have found, not what are actually under construction.
For instance, the Three Rivers, Texas location was found on August 18th, yet had already been under construction for a month.
Locations like the Three Rivers site are going up where people aren't expecting them, which makes it that much harder to find out about them before Tesla announces that they are open.
The effort put into sleuthing is relatively constant, so there will always be a couple locations under construction we haven't found yet whether there is alot of construction activity or a little. TMC sleuths are quite efficient though: there probably haven't been even a handful of sites like West Yellowstone that became operational without having been found ahead of time.
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This is the same conversation we had back in January, and it turned out there were many many superchargers under construction that we hadn't heard about. Most of the (hypothetical) new superchargers are going into places where there not only aren't many actual Teslas, but where the local population mostly haven't even heard of Tesla. So they're not doing permit searches, not knowing what they are seeing when they see construction, and certainly not reporting it here.
I assert that the pace of construction has not slowed. Reference to supercharge.info does not convince me otherwise.
I assert that the pace of construction has not slowed. Reference to supercharge.info does not convince me otherwise.
SpiceWare
Member
as BerTX said,
Actual openings shows a good increase. The number of unannounced sites we've managed to find is irrelevant.
SpiceWare
Member
Don't count your chickens before they've hatched / don't count your superchargers before they've opened.
Thank you both for your posts. I agree. Every few months it seems that someone posts something to the effect of "Supercharger construction has decreased!" And yet year after year, the network expands dramatically.
It is possible for the current rate of supercharger construction to be greater this year than last and also less than the rate it was earlier this summer as I have stated. 15 new U.S. superchargers opened in June, but only 4 in July and 8 in August.
...and 2 in February, 4 in March, NONE in April and 7 in May
June was just an anomaly, not a trend.
RedP85+
Member
Watertown NY popped up finished from nowhere. I agree however that the pace seems to have slowed. I check supercharger.info several times a day and the pace has slowed recently. It is no secret that Elon is trying to show profit this quarter so cutting back on sites would be part of this strategy.
Just got a note back from the supercharger team. They are aiming for late October, early November for Lima, MT supercharger opening.
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