Tesla's AEB system fails according to Jalopnik/Luminar. Beware of FUD

[alexgr]

I read the story in Jalopnik of Teslas failing AEB tests supposedly because of the vision-only system.

Watch Teslas And Audis And Other Cars Smack Into Fake Kids In Demos Of Automatic Emergency Braking Systems

A lidar company set up some alarming tests at CES that had lots of fake kids getting whacked with cars

jalopnik.com

I was like OMG WTF.
Then, I watched the Luminar video closely. ... please look at the pedals at seconds 14 to 16.

I wonder why Tesla does not go after companies and publications like that in the legal field in the US.

 

[thesmokingman]

WTF, driver accelerated? Looks at comments, not surprised turned off. This should be forwarded to legal.

 

[alexgr]

WTF, driver accelerated? Looks at comments, not surprised turned off. This should be forwarded to legal.

yup. exactly. It seems the creators were not bright enough to not show the pedal operation in the video. I am so tired of people around telling me how Tesla AP, FSD, and the car in general is so unsafe.

 

[whoosierdaddy]

ROFL you can see the brake engaging and his foot tapping to override it!!!!

 

[zigmeister]

Why did they turn off video comments? Hmmm....

 

[mspohr]

Scientists Defy God, Teach Goldfish to Drive on Land

The goldfish were pretty good at piloting a Fish-Operated Vehicle, or FOV, the scientists report in a new study.

www.vice.com

 

[nvx1977]

I don't know much about AEB specifically; is it supposed to override the accelerator pedal? Obviously standard AP/TACC defer to manual accel usage, but I can see a use case for AEB to override.

In general, if a car's AI is good enough, I see a great use case for the car to override human to avoid imminent collision with VRUs, other cars, railings, etc.

 

[alexgr]

I don't know much about AEB specifically; is it supposed to override the accelerator pedal? Obviously standard AP/TACC defer to manual accel usage, but I can see a use case for AEB to override.

In general, if a car's AI is good enough, I see a great use case for the car to override human to avoid imminent collision with VRUs, other cars, railings, etc.

That is an interesting point. When the brake pedal is depressed, Tesla applies the actual brakes, so the mechanics involved in the brake and accelerator pedals is different, and kinda mechanically independent. I could see the both sides of the argument: (1) we need the AEB to override the driver, but (2) you should be able to override the AEB somewhat in case it goes amoke (we, enrolled in FSD Beta, have learned that on one Sunday morning with v10.3). Either way, it is a software logic of the system operation that has nothing to do with Luminar Lidar vs. Tesla Pure Vision.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Obviously AEB overrides the accelerator otherwise how would it work? I think the sudden deceleration moved his foot forward. It doesn't look like it changed the deceleration. This is the frame where the car started decelerating. It dropped from 51mph to 31mph in 17 frames (24fps), 1g is 22mph per second. The car was full braking.
And of course you can see the brake pedal is on the floor when he hits the pedestrian...

 

[Bladerskb]

I read the story in Jalopnik of Teslas failing AEB tests supposedly because of the vision-only system.

Watch Teslas And Audis And Other Cars Smack Into Fake Kids In Demos Of Automatic Emergency Braking Systems

A lidar company set up some alarming tests at CES that had lots of fake kids getting whacked with cars

jalopnik.com

I was like OMG WTF.
Then, I watched the Luminar video closely. ... please look at the pedals at seconds 14 to 16.

I wonder why Tesla does not go after companies and publications like that in the legal field in the US.

There is no FUD in that particular part of the video. When the brake started moving, it was already too late and would have still hit the pedestrian.

 

[AndreP]

Should the accelerator override AEB? If you can push through AEB and run something over regardless, doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose?

Apparently you can go to CES and test drive this stuff for yourself in a range of vehicles including Teslas, the video posted from YouTube is from four months ago.

 

[alexgr]

Obviously AEB overrides the accelerator otherwise how would it work? I think the sudden deceleration moved his foot forward. It doesn't look like it changed the deceleration. This is the frame where the car started decelerating. It dropped from 51mph to 31mph in 17 frames (24fps), 1g is 22mph per second. The car was full braking.
And of course you can see the brake pedal is on the floor when he hits the pedestrian...
View attachment 752991

Nah. I see it differently. To me, the driver presses the accelerator intentionally and overrides the AEB. The quickly goes to under 30 and then stays constant as the driver consistently overrides the AEB. Another thing is that the speed seems to be in km/h and not in mph.

 

[alexgr]

There is no FUD in that particular part of the video. When the brake started moving, it was already too late and would have still hit the pedestrian.

On the article: it is FUD by definition as the title reads that Teslas smack into fake kids. If that is not FUD I don't know what is.
On the video: how do you know that? To me, it seems the driver is playing with the accelerator to press it hard right at the moment of the AEB engagement. Then, if the AEB is engaged that car MUST stop even if late, but the Luminar video shows a Tesla continuously moving of a fake dead kid body without any indication of AEB deceleration. To the legal!

 

[Daniel in SD]

Nah. I see it differently. To me, the driver presses the accelerator intentionally and overrides the AEB. The quickly goes to under 30 and then stays constant as the driver consistently overrides the AEB. Another thing is that the speed seems to be in km/h and not in mph.

Notice that both his knees also move. Even if he tried to override it, it didn't work. The brake pedal is still all the way down when he hits the pedestrian model.
Kmh makes more sense, it did seem to be decelerating faster than I would expect.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Do you all seriously believe that your car can stop from 30mph in this distance?

 

[AndreP]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1479223353730756608

If that's just the AEB system, it seems seriously impressive

 

[alexgr]

Obviously AEB overrides the accelerator otherwise how would it work? I think the sudden deceleration moved his foot forward. It doesn't look like it changed the deceleration. This is the frame where the car started decelerating. It dropped from 51mph to 31mph in 17 frames (24fps), 1g is 22mph per second. The car was full braking.
And of course you can see the brake pedal is on the floor when he hits the pedestrian...
View attachment 752991

One more indication of foul play is that during the deceleration from 51 to 30 the energy indicator never goes green that tells us that the recuperated energy is fully compensated by the energy intentionally supplied by the driver.

Another question should be: Is it in Luminar interest to demonstrate that Tesla/Audi AEB systems work well? Apparently not. The next question then should be: Is it ethical for Jalopnik or any other so-called journalist to use this information from Luminar to proclaim that Teslas and Audis smack poor fake kids dead? This does not pass my ethical misconduct smell test.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1479223353730756608

If that's just the AEB system, it seems seriously impressive

2022 Tesla Model 3 4-door sedan

2022 Tesla Model 3 4-door sedan - midsize luxury car

www.iihs.org

2022 Tesla Model Y 4-door SUV

2022 Tesla Model Y 4-door SUV - midsize luxury SUV

www.iihs.org

BTW, "Superior" is their highest rating . . . .

 

[johnm]

What does the manual say?

Automatic Emergency Braking does not apply the brakes, or stops applying the brakes, when:

• You turn the steering wheel sharply.
• You press and release the brake pedal while Automatic Emergency Braking is applying the brakes.
• You accelerate hard while Automatic Emergency Braking is applying the brakes.
• The vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or pedestrian is no longer detected ahead.

 

[alexgr]

Do you all seriously believe that your car can stop from 30mph in this distance?

View attachment 752996

Stopping distance should be about 12-14 m. If the AEB reacts, and we see and hear it does, the car should stop quickly in about 1 second. It does not stop => foul play. Full stop.