I keep reading accounts of how these cars will use up a considerable level of range by warming the battery in cold weather. Can anyone confirm if this is only experienced when starting out and can be avoided by preheating the car prior to driving or is it a thing where the car will constantly be warming the battery throughout a journey and preheating has little effect?
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Teslas And Cold Weather
- Thread starter LEE3
- Start date
First of all it depends on what you mean by cold weather. Central Canada type cold or Vancouver type cold. Setting the charge start time so that it ends at about the same time you start driving plus preheating the cabin helps with the initial hit. If it's -20 and there are headwinds, it will be reduced, typically by 25% (this is similar to an ICE vehicle).
It depends on the conditions and how cold it is. The colder the temperature, the more energy it’s going to use for battery and cabin conditioning. The biggest consumer of energy is cabin heat. Preheating helps, but does not completely eliminate the extra energy usage. Driving around with no heat helps, but screw that!
MrBadger
Badger out
@LEE3 check out my Summer and Winter simulations of various BEV's doing a 200 mile central Manchester to central London trip. Winter was 3C, very wet and a smallish head wind. EV 200 Mile Manchester to London Trip Simulation : Musings You will see how it affects efficiency, charge stops and journey times. Start charge at 95%, min arrival charge 20% and extra occupants/cargo.
Its only a simulation, and the conditions may not match what you typically do, but hope it gives some idea of differences. Shorter trips will be worse as proportionally more will be used up in getting things up to temperature.
I do worry that some SR+ orders will not have factored in a number of variables - the table highlights how these things may compromise a longer journey. An SR+ would require an extra stop in Winter conditions and have less range at the end.
Its only a simulation, and the conditions may not match what you typically do, but hope it gives some idea of differences. Shorter trips will be worse as proportionally more will be used up in getting things up to temperature.
I do worry that some SR+ orders will not have factored in a number of variables - the table highlights how these things may compromise a longer journey. An SR+ would require an extra stop in Winter conditions and have less range at the end.
Last edited:
culverwood
Member
Another factor in cold weather on short trips is the lack of regeneration from braking.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
A Better Route Planner lets you plan your journeys based on differing conditions, precipitation, wind, temperature etc. I don't know how accurate it is, people seem to rate it. It's certainly fun to play around with.
Preheating while still plugged in will draw as much electricity from the mains as it can to warm the cabin and battery. So broadly speaking, if you have a 7kW chargepoint It’ll all come from there and your battery will remain full (or at whatever level you set it to). If you only have a 3.6kW charger it’ll draw 3.6kW from the mains and the rest from the main battery.
Preheating in this way is one of the joys of owning an EV as you get out to the car on a miserable cold day and the car is toasty warm and all the frost and snow has melted off so you’re ready to go.
In the first few miles your battery will warm up slowly and you’ll take quite a hit in terms of energy consumption per mile. However once it’s all up to temp things settle down and on long trips the extra consumption to keep things warm is reasonably trivial.
However, if you then stop and park and allow the car to cold soak again it all starts again next time to your move on. So a day spent doing 2-3 visits of 3 hours each where the car cools off and can’t be plugged in is going to be a lot harder on your battery than a day driving solidly.
Overall it’s not really a problem, but it is something to be aware of. And once you’ve lived with a preconditioned car for a winter you’ll wonder how you ever managed without. First world problems ;-)
Preheating in this way is one of the joys of owning an EV as you get out to the car on a miserable cold day and the car is toasty warm and all the frost and snow has melted off so you’re ready to go.
In the first few miles your battery will warm up slowly and you’ll take quite a hit in terms of energy consumption per mile. However once it’s all up to temp things settle down and on long trips the extra consumption to keep things warm is reasonably trivial.
However, if you then stop and park and allow the car to cold soak again it all starts again next time to your move on. So a day spent doing 2-3 visits of 3 hours each where the car cools off and can’t be plugged in is going to be a lot harder on your battery than a day driving solidly.
Overall it’s not really a problem, but it is something to be aware of. And once you’ve lived with a preconditioned car for a winter you’ll wonder how you ever managed without. First world problems ;-)
cezdoc
Member
Basically in UK conditions you're correct: there is a "departure tax" when the car gets the battery and cabin up to temperature but after that I believe the car can get the majority of the heat it needs from excess heat in the motors/drive train.
In my experience I see about 20% range reduction on longer trips in winter compared with summer - more if there's a headwind or standing water. Over a series of short trips from cold, however, my energy consumption can more than double.
Preheating helps if the car is plugged in and drawing power from an external supply: it will heat the cabin up and defrost the windows but it doesn't get the battery up to full operating temperature. I presume full battery operating temperature is achieved via excess heat once the car is moving.
ICE cars generate a huge amount of excess heat, some of which can be put to use in winter and all of which is wasted in the summer, which is why they don't experience as much of a range hit as EV's. Fuel consumption will be affected by headwinds and wet conditions just the same though.
Let me clarify, the problem with colder temperatures isn't that the car uses power to warm the batteries, it's that the batteries just aren't efficient when cold. When it gets really cold, the batteries just don't work well at all.
You'll see some folks trying to preheat the batteries, that's often because they want higher regen, which is honestly not a requirement or real need.
By finishing a charge just before you use it, the battery will be warmer.
No matter what, expect about 30% degradation of range when the weather is cold. During colder months, a LR Model 3, expect a range more like 220 miles instead of 320 miles.
0 degrees is basically half the range.
Depending on how you drive
But the 200 trip example, the difference between LR and SR is 1 stop for 15 min.
Which might be a pain if you do it every day or once a week.
I think with more frequent chargers and superchargers you can probably get that down to 1 stop. The whole Manchester to London route would have you charging when you reach 60% (if you leave with 100%)
with the SR+ you can depart with as little as 60% charge and not affect arrival time. Then there is a long stretch where you have to charge to 90% or drive slowly to make it to Northampton.
If you could stop near Birmingham (on the way) you could probably make it with 1 stop in the winter.
Depending on how you drive
But the 200 trip example, the difference between LR and SR is 1 stop for 15 min.
Which might be a pain if you do it every day or once a week.
I think with more frequent chargers and superchargers you can probably get that down to 1 stop. The whole Manchester to London route would have you charging when you reach 60% (if you leave with 100%)
with the SR+ you can depart with as little as 60% charge and not affect arrival time. Then there is a long stretch where you have to charge to 90% or drive slowly to make it to Northampton.
If you could stop near Birmingham (on the way) you could probably make it with 1 stop in the winter.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I like your style. Plan ahead. Mid July, Hottest day of the year so far maybe. And that's when you started a thread about winter driving. 
I’ve never seen a drop of as much as 30% loss here in the U.K. over our relatively mild winters. I’ve driven 20k miles over 2 years in a Leaf 24, and currently 15k in a Kona Electric, including over last winter.
In the Kona I typically get 250-270 miles at 100% in the summer, and 240-260 through the winter. Is the Kona so much better than current Teslas?
In the Kona I typically get 250-270 miles at 100% in the summer, and 240-260 through the winter. Is the Kona so much better than current Teslas?
I think that's a reasonable rule of thumb. Range really does take a big hit in winter, especially if the roads are wet too. As others have said, short trips with long periods of rest are the worst case scenario for range. Pre-heating while plugged in doesn't help as much as you may think. I'm plugged in every night and still my winter range is way down on summer.
Possibly so. 30% is perhaps being on the pessimistic side, but let's say 20-30% loss is typical of our Model X in winter. I regularly see power consumption figures above 500 Wh/mile in winter, while it can drop well under 400 Wh/mile for the same short trip in summer.
M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
Short trips when the ambient temperature is below 3C will see an impact.
Medium trips when the ambient temperature is below -5C will see 20% to 30% impact.
I could go on, but the British Isles rarely see temps below that.
You'll use noticeably more power on cold winter days on short commutes. But on long road trips, you guys don't have the kind of Canadian winters which really impact range.
Another thing to consider is that the seat heaters use hardly any energy compared to the cabin heater. If you are by yourself or on a short trip, it doesn't make sense to heat the entire cabin if the seat heaters would be sufficient.
I have a 17 mile commute and in the winter, I rarely ever use the cabin heat as the seat heaters are enough to keep me warm.
I have a 17 mile commute and in the winter, I rarely ever use the cabin heat as the seat heaters are enough to keep me warm.
We might not have Canadian winters, but we do still see 20-30% impact on range over winter regardless. Maybe it would not be so bad on longer trips, but I have enough data for that.
M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
I don't have a garage, just a carport, and our winters experience temperatures generally close to yours (some of the time). Though our Spring and Fall are a lot warmer, obviously.
For a decent drive, I've really only seen a significant range impact when the outside temperatures are well before freezing point. One experience was driving across Kansas on I-70 with day-time highs in the teens (F) and that had about a 40% hit. (below -9C)
For short commutes, you never get over the overheads of heating up the car, and the reduction in regen, and the effect of a cold-soaked battery, even in cool British/Irish winter mornings. But you have lots of battery capacity to spare for your commuting needs.
Similar threads
