Teslas are welcome in Arizona

[tmoz]

I guess Teslas are no longer welcome in Arizona?

Vehicle license tax formula for alternative fuel cars changing in 2022 | Department of Transportation

PHOENIX – Changes to state law mean that drivers who purchase alternative fuel vehicles will pay the same vehicle license tax (VLT) rate as other drivers by 2023.

azdot.gov

I wouldn't say that. I would just say that the incentive for purchasing any EV or alt fuel vehicle just went away.

 

[vickh]

I wouldn't say that. I would just say that the incentive for purchasing any EV or alt fuel vehicle just went away.

One of the main reasons I bought was the no VLT (since no other incentive in AZ) Maybe I'll look into upgrading to Y b/f 1/1 or maybe buy used X

 

[tmoz]

One of the main reasons I bought was the no VLT (since no other incentive in AZ) Maybe I'll look into upgrading to Y b/f 1/1 or maybe buy used X

The VLT was among your main reasons? I'm assuming this fell in the category of Total cost of ownership. I would think other factors would be much larger than VLT, but maybe I'm wrong. My main reason for getting my model S in 2015 was that it was a front row ticket to the start of the EV era. Things like this don't come along that often, but they seem to be coming along much faster as technology is improving exponentially and we are starting to get on the part of the hockey stick where you start noticing big changes.

 

[DeepBlueMN]

I did the AZ 5 year EV registration for $100 (no VLT until 2024!). I think that option is still available through the end of this year. So… Buy or upgrade now!

 

[tmoz]

In AZ:
On a $50,000 car, the VLT would be over a 5 yr period: $50,000*0.60*(2.8/100)*(1 + (1-0.16) + (1-0.32) + (1-0.48) + (1-0.64)) = $2,856
60% of MSRP * $2.80 per $100 for the first year and then each year thereafter, reduce it by 16%.

 

[DopeGhoti]

They're still welcome; the state is just rescinding an incentive to purchase (or more specifically, register) them: they're not going to be more welcome than other cars for the purposes of registration taxes. Fortunately for folks who already have AFVs such as Teslas, those bought before the goalposts on the change are keeping their incentivized registration rates going forward; I was leery of that not being the case (even though those selfsame registration fees are a tax write-off). Looks like even after the tax parity alignment, new Teslas will still get access to the diamond lanes, which is also nice.

 

[tmoz]

They're still welcome; the state is just rescinding an incentive to purchase (or more specifically, register) them: they're not going to be more welcome than other cars for the purposes of registration taxes. Fortunately for folks who already have AFVs such as Teslas, those bought before the goalposts on the change are keeping their incentivized registration rates going forward; I was leery of that not being the case (even though those selfsame registration fees are a tax write-off). Looks like even after the tax parity alignment, new Teslas will still get access to the diamond lanes, which is also nice.

and by the time there are too many EVs on the road to grant them HOV access, I'll be either dead or the cars can drive themselves and I can do something else while in traffic.

 

[Evoforce]

It is just sad to me raising the VLT because we generally pay more for our cars and help reduce the pollution. I feel we deserve a little perk...

 

[DeepBlueMN]

EV owners should pay their fair share of road infrastructure taxes.
What I don’t understand is why owners of newer cars have to pay such a larger part of these transportation taxes. An older car uses the roads the same as a newer car. They all have 4 tires that wear the road. (well, except for all those big ass pickup trucks with oversize knobby tires)
As far as EV incentives, every state with any large cities can benefit from more EVs, so that is where tax incentives for EV buyers should apply. Phoenix has notoriously bad air quality (for a non-industrial city) so another 10-20% more EVs (via new car sales) would have a good impact on air quality and the associated health issues.

 

[vickh]

The VLT was among your main reasons? I'm assuming this fell in the category of Total cost of ownership. I would think other factors would be much larger than VLT, but maybe I'm wrong. My main reason for getting my model S in 2015 was that it was a front row ticket to the start of the EV era. Things like this don't come along that often, but they seem to be coming along much faster as technology is improving exponentially and we are starting to get on the part of the hockey stick where you start noticing big changes.

the SR has/was the lowest TCOS with the VLT factored in. Purely financial decision on my part. Being fun/tech etc was secondary. I wish they'd bring back the SR Y or release the $39K CT soon

 

[vickh]

In AZ:
On a $50,000 car, the VLT would be over a 5 yr period: $50,000*0.60*(2.8/100)*(1 + (1-0.16) + (1-0.32) + (1-0.48) + (1-0.64)) = $2,856
60% of MSRP * $2.80 per $100 for the first year and then each year thereafter, reduce it by 16%.

$$2,856 for 5 years?

 

[tmoz]

$$2,856 for 5 years?

Yes. 840 + 706 + 570 + 436 + 302 roughly.
Fortunately I bought some tesla stock at the same time I bought the car, and on paper at least, the car was free two yrs later.
Not sure I'll buy more stock when I buy the cyber truck, but we shall see.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Yes. 840 + 706 + 570 + 436 + 302 roughly.
Fortunately I bought some tesla stock at the same time I bought the car, and on paper at least, the car was free two yrs later.
Not sure I'll buy more stock when I buy the cyber truck, but we shall see.

That's sounds like it will be closer to what Colorado has charged for years. In Colorado, I think the owner's tax for the first 5 years on a $50k vehicle would be 992.5 + 737.50 + 610 + 482.5 + 391.25 = $3213.76 not including all other registration fees.

 

[DopeGhoti]

It is just sad to me raising the VLT because we generally pay more for our cars and help reduce the pollution. I feel we deserve a little perk...

Yes, paying more dollars in taxes than before hurts in the wallet, but they're not raising the VLT. They're reducing a reduction of VLT so that we with EV/AFV cars pay the same tax rate as everyone else. Sure it's a distinction without a financial difference, but it's an important semantic one. My former boss with his Masseratti is paying more per year than I did with my Prius, too. It's only fair, to be perfectly honest. And I say that despite ranting about the sticker shock I'd go through every darn year. I'm still used to the $20 registration fee Vermont charged every couple years as opposed to AZ's hundreds of dollars annually.

And besides, with pulling in the fair tax rate from all the Teslas and e-VWs and e-BMWs I see on the Loop 101, maybe they'll have the money to finally finish the lane expansion sometime this decade.

 

[tmoz]

Yes, paying more dollars in taxes than before hurts in the wallet, but they're not raising the VLT. They're reducing a reduction of VLT so that we with EV/AFV cars pay the same tax rate as everyone else. Sure it's a distinction without a financial difference, but it's an important semantic one. My former boss with his Masseratti is paying more per year than I did with my Prius, too. It's only fair, to be perfectly honest. And I say that despite ranting about the sticker shock I'd go through every darn year. I'm still used to the $20 registration fee Vermont charged every couple years as opposed to AZ's hundreds of dollars annually.

And besides, with pulling in the fair tax rate from all the Teslas and e-VWs and e-BMWs I see on the Loop 101, maybe they'll have the money to finally finish the lane expansion sometime this decade.

I agree with what you say in paragraph one, but it's going to take more than the EVs paying the full VLT to pay for the road expansions. I've been waiting for three lanes to Tucson for a long time. Only one stretch left, and I think they finally have plans in motion to finish that section (mile markers 162 ish to 184 ish).

 

[Evoforce]

Yes, paying more dollars in taxes than before hurts in the wallet, but they're not raising the VLT. They're reducing a reduction of VLT so that we with EV/AFV cars pay the same tax rate as everyone else. Sure it's a distinction without a financial difference, but it's an important semantic one. My former boss with his Masseratti is paying more per year than I did with my Prius, too. It's only fair, to be perfectly honest. And I say that despite ranting about the sticker shock I'd go through every darn year. I'm still used to the $20 registration fee Vermont charged every couple years as opposed to AZ's hundreds of dollars annually.

And besides, with pulling in the fair tax rate from all the Teslas and e-VWs and e-BMWs I see on the Loop 101, maybe they'll have the money to finally finish the lane expansion sometime this decade.

Except, raising the VLT on EVs is earmarked to go into policing remote areas in AZ. It will not go into road expansion or repairs.

 

[tmoz]

Except, raising the VLT on EVs is earmarked to go into policing remote areas in AZ. It will not go into road expansion or repairs.

I didn't realize they were primarily used for general revenue, but they are distributed to each county. I believe each county is allocated their proportionate share. It does not appear to be allocated to border patrol, at least from this Pima County memo. https://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/S... License Tax Allocation to Transportation.pdf

 

[Evoforce]

I didn't realize they were primarily used for general revenue, but they are distributed to each county. I believe each county is allocated their proportionate share. It does not appear to be allocated to border patrol, at least from this Pima County memo. https://webcms.pima.gov/UserFiles/Servers/Server_6/File/Government/Administration/CHHmemosFor Web/2018/November/General Fund Vehicle License Tax Allocation to Transportation.pdf

When the law was written it specifically was earmarked for Law enforcement on remote highway areas in Arizona. Has that been revised? Maybe...because they did push back the timeline for when those EV VLT taxes were to be enforced. This was all in response to trying to raise funds to pay teachers more money after their strike. So they robbed remote highway Police fund to help pay teachers hike that led them to try and cover remote police by raising VLT on EVs, at least so they said. Bob Worsley former Representative for Mesa drafted it and presented it for Ducey to sign which he promptly did.

 

[vickh]

When the law was written it specifically was earmarked for Law enforcement on remote highway areas in Arizona. Has that been revised? Maybe...because they did push back the timeline for when those EV VLT taxes were to be enforced. This was all in response to trying to raise funds to pay teachers more money after their strike. So they robbed remote highway Police fund to help pay teachers hike that led them to try and cover remote police by raising VLT on EVs, at least so they said. Bob Worsley former Representative for Mesa drafted it and presented it for Ducey to sign which he promptly did.

robbing Peter...

There's enough money. need to quit waste etc. Definitely on the fed level with all the wars etc.. some to protect oil supplies. I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[Evoforce]

robbing Peter...

There's enough money. need to quit waste etc. Definitely on the fed level with all the wars etc.. some to protect oil supplies. I'll get off my soap box now.

I feel that the State and Fed need to continue to incentivize EVs for more time into the future... Some people will switch from ICE because of those incentives. Fed tax credits, HOV use, lower VLT, cheaper than gas, less pollution, etc...