essmd
Phantom X
Yup, good thing you figured that out all by yourself, cause my arm isn't that long to smack the bank of your head and yell "Schmuck"!!!!!
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My 2013 Model S does not have Auto Pilot ; my question is just out of curiosity.
I would assume Model S as well as other cars with auto pilot would depend on multiple cameras strategically positioned and aligned. Considering the condition of roads, particularly Freeze/thaw states, it is likely that some of these cameras would be out of alignment over a period of time. Would that be a major issue or concern? A small misalignment could cause major shift in focus or area of coverage!
I would assume Model S as well as other cars with auto pilot would depend on multiple cameras strategically positioned and aligned. Considering the condition of roads, particularly Freeze/thaw states, it is likely that some of these cameras would be out of alignment over a period of time. Would that be a major issue or concern? A small misalignment could cause major shift in focus or area of coverage!
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
There is an alignment procedure that the service center can do in that case. There is some tolerance for slight misalignment (I remember reading that they corp out the edge of the sensor to adjust for slight misalignments).
essmd
Phantom X
Presuming the cameras are designed correctly, regardless of whether or not they are encased in a hermetically sealed enclosure, why would they be expected to get misaligned from freeze/thaw ecposure.
I would think the vibrations encountered just by being part of a motor vehicle would risk this more than the weather, so a quality product would be resistant to this comexposure.
Is there that much lack of confidence in Tesla quality?
I would think the vibrations encountered just by being part of a motor vehicle would risk this more than the weather, so a quality product would be resistant to this comexposure.
Is there that much lack of confidence in Tesla quality?
Mark Z
Active Member
The OP video looks similar to what happened to me on the 91 westbound at 9 PM in the last month. I look forward to the problem being solved after the 90D is returned from the service center. Driving the original P85 for now; manual steering and superior acceleration makes me feel young again! The RWD EV is much quieter around town. If AP2 continues to act up, the 90D may be the EV to trade in.
Kant.Ing
Member
FlyF4
Son of a MX
What you are saying is - you will use common sense. Good idea.
futurem3owner
2017 90D
I think when you have too many things taking up your attention, you’re bound to ignore the things that made you special in the first place. At the moment, Elon is focused on the getting out of Model 3 production hell, the upcoming launch of the semi and building the recently announced supercharging in urban cities. While both latter efforts are admirable and shows that Tesla is versatile and ambitious, it also risks putting other key areas in the back burner and not get the undivided attention they need.
FSD is a prime example of this. After the setback with MobilEye, Autopilot should have been the primary focus for Tesla. However, we’re just starting to see a lot of data gathering from AP 2.0 and that staff trying to recruit more people to their team. Thus, even basic stuff like rain sensing wipers is still not implemented and AP 2.0 is still not at parity with AP 1. With such slow improvements being made on EAP, it’s suffice to say FSD won’t be available for many years to come in spite of Elon’s overreach sometimes and it’s not state regulations that will impede its progress.
Supercharging is another area where Tesla already made great strides in by rapidly expanding the coverage across US and now focusing on urban areas. Despite this, I can’t help but wonder if that revenue would be better spent in coming up with even faster rate of charging akin to Porsche’s 15 minute to almost full charge. This will not only eradicate current supercharger congestion (which will only be exacerbated by the incoming influx of Model 3’s) but also drive more potential buyers to EV’s who find the wait periods of charging to be a potential dealbreaker.
There are other areas that Tesla can also work on such as offering better premium interior package but the autonomous driving is an absolute key focus that they need to give the most support to, as they’re still advertising FSD and even charging for it when in reality, they’re nowhere near close to achieving it. Otherwise, Tesla risks losing the autonomous race as well as supercharging to other automakers whose focus is diverting to solely making EV’s and that would be a shame after all the progress it has already made in those areas.
FSD is a prime example of this. After the setback with MobilEye, Autopilot should have been the primary focus for Tesla. However, we’re just starting to see a lot of data gathering from AP 2.0 and that staff trying to recruit more people to their team. Thus, even basic stuff like rain sensing wipers is still not implemented and AP 2.0 is still not at parity with AP 1. With such slow improvements being made on EAP, it’s suffice to say FSD won’t be available for many years to come in spite of Elon’s overreach sometimes and it’s not state regulations that will impede its progress.
Supercharging is another area where Tesla already made great strides in by rapidly expanding the coverage across US and now focusing on urban areas. Despite this, I can’t help but wonder if that revenue would be better spent in coming up with even faster rate of charging akin to Porsche’s 15 minute to almost full charge. This will not only eradicate current supercharger congestion (which will only be exacerbated by the incoming influx of Model 3’s) but also drive more potential buyers to EV’s who find the wait periods of charging to be a potential dealbreaker.
There are other areas that Tesla can also work on such as offering better premium interior package but the autonomous driving is an absolute key focus that they need to give the most support to, as they’re still advertising FSD and even charging for it when in reality, they’re nowhere near close to achieving it. Otherwise, Tesla risks losing the autonomous race as well as supercharging to other automakers whose focus is diverting to solely making EV’s and that would be a shame after all the progress it has already made in those areas.
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thegruf
Active Member
Whilst Tesla undoubtedly has finite resources I think you misconstrue that efforts of one part of the company are distracted by efforts of another. There will be multitudes of skill sets and teams within Tesla each with their own priorities.
Even within AP, I would expect there to be multiple teams. In particular I suspect that FSD is following a whole different track using very different techniques than EAP, likely using some of the EAP features as an overlay.
If you seriously think that Tesla/Panasonic do not understand optimum Li Ion battery technology available today as a balance of charge rate/capacity/longeivity/power+weight density and that Porsche are somehow going to miraculously charge their cars at 3x the rate of Tesla without other compormises then I think you are mistaken. Tesla could charge their batteries much faster today if they chose to but they wouldn't last very long.
VAG have proved themselves to be consummate liars in the past and Posche can make any claim they like and I won't believe a word of it until they actually have product on the market and being sold to the public, anything else from them is likely just spoiling BS.
In reality you and I have no idea how close they are to it. That they are late with AP EAP and FSD features is unquestionable and risks their reputation and potentially even legal challenge. That they are working on it as hard as they can must be a given, and interior design personnel will have nothing to do with the software teams.
The reality is that Elon's stated aim is to get the world off polluting ICE engines and move to ZEVs. In this he is having quite remarkable success.
Elon/Tesla have never said they want to be the biggest auto manufacturer, I'm not even sure they have stated that they will be the first to full autonomous, for sure though they are using the headlines that Autopilot/autonomous generate to keep the buzz around EVs, and where you and I look at car over a few year cycle of use and quite understandably get frustrated when short(ish) term goals are missed, Elon/Tesla are looking at a much longer term picture of integrating cars/autonomy/tunnels/hyperloop and all the way to mars as the future of transport. Really it's like being in a sci-fi film that's unfolding around us. without these guys the pace of development would be a fraction of what we have today.
Ghosty
Member
This is like asking for the shutdown of all cars that have Cruise Control b/c it can be abused/it can't prevent accidents.
I just drove my just purchased Model S AP2 car. Did I use AP2 during my trip from Bay Area to Las Vegas? Yes, absolutely. Did car drive itself? No. Did I expect it to drive itself? No. Did AP2 function as expected? Yes. Did I think AP2 meant a self-driving car? Of course not.
Did I hold the steering wheel at all times when I was driving? Of course I did. You have to be a fool to think Autopilot is self-sufficient. Why put yourself in such predicament? AP is a convenience - it provides a level of comfort just like any other car feature.
If you think it's dangerous - DON'T USE IT! Sheesh.
I just drove my just purchased Model S AP2 car. Did I use AP2 during my trip from Bay Area to Las Vegas? Yes, absolutely. Did car drive itself? No. Did I expect it to drive itself? No. Did AP2 function as expected? Yes. Did I think AP2 meant a self-driving car? Of course not.
Did I hold the steering wheel at all times when I was driving? Of course I did. You have to be a fool to think Autopilot is self-sufficient. Why put yourself in such predicament? AP is a convenience - it provides a level of comfort just like any other car feature.
If you think it's dangerous - DON'T USE IT! Sheesh.
OBX John
Autonomous Driving Enthusiast
They need to remove the accelerator pedal in all cars immediately! Someone may press it, and the car will become a DANGEROUS 5000 LB MISSILE!
better yet implement complete FSD and take the moron component out of the equationThey need to remove the accelerator pedal in all cars immediately! Someone may press it, and the car will become a DANGEROUS 5000 LB MISSILE!
Porche is NOT yet enabling that type of fast charging. From Electrek" "and while Porsche claims that it already has the backend to support 350 kW charge rate, it can currently charge at 50 to 150 kW until vehicles can support higher charge rates"
Claims are claims until someone used one. And for that matter, any viable competitor to a Tesla is at least 2019 in coming from Porsche.
Just saying, lets compare what exists now, not to what might exist at some future point down the road.
I hope you reported this to Tesla. If they're not aware of car attempting to murder you, they're not going to be able to stop this from happening. But even if they're aware, they may not be aware of the severity of the issue until you explain it to them. For all our sake, report it.
I like to put it a bit diplomatically,
"you need to use commonsense (assuming you have it) when using AP, just like any other tool like a knife or a chain saw"
Although I agree you conveyed the same succinctly with a different choice of words.
Update since March
Lockheed Engineer/Whistleblower
Founder Professionals for Responsible Mobility
Autonomous Levels 4 and 5 will never be reached without Simulation vs Public Shadow Driving for AI.
Level 2+ and L3 should not be used at all
Public Shadow Driving is Dangerous and Untenable
Thousands of accidents, injuries and casualties will occur when these companies move from benign and easy scenarios to complex, dangerous and accident scenarios. And the cost in time and funding is untenable. One trillion public shadow driving miles would need to be driven at a cost of over $300B. The answer is to use aerospace level simulation and the best engineering practices the aerospace industry uses.
Much more detail in my article here
Letter to Congress - Handling of minimum standards for Autonomous industry
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/letter-congress-handling-minimum-standards-industry-michael-dekort/
Lockheed Engineer/Whistleblower
Founder Professionals for Responsible Mobility
Autonomous Levels 4 and 5 will never be reached without Simulation vs Public Shadow Driving for AI.
Level 2+ and L3 should not be used at all
Public Shadow Driving is Dangerous and Untenable
Thousands of accidents, injuries and casualties will occur when these companies move from benign and easy scenarios to complex, dangerous and accident scenarios. And the cost in time and funding is untenable. One trillion public shadow driving miles would need to be driven at a cost of over $300B. The answer is to use aerospace level simulation and the best engineering practices the aerospace industry uses.
Much more detail in my article here
Letter to Congress - Handling of minimum standards for Autonomous industry
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/letter-congress-handling-minimum-standards-industry-michael-dekort/
Mark Z
Active Member
Of course I reported it, I was on the phone with Tesla at Fremont when it happened! Within a couple of weeks, they called to request that I bring the 2017 MS 90D in for service. No anomaly found. I posted the results in a post here: Autopilot 2.0 is dangerous
timvracer
Member
OMG... just watched the video. Sorry, if you think AP can navigate those particular roads, you don't understand AP. It is not FSD, nowhere close. I love AP 2.0, I use it every single day on my commute, and it is wonderful. I'd be crazy to try and have it drive curvy local roads like the ones in this video.
Common sense please.
Common sense please.
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