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Tesla's autopilot - "unsupervised wannabe" - Volvo says...

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Electricfan, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    I searched for "wannabe" and didn't see a post about this article.

    I share the feelings of the author. I thought there was no way a car company could release an autopilot function and at the same time demand that the driver basically retain responsibility for driving. It just doesn't make sense. I'm posting this because its good to see I'm not the only one. Let the flaming begin!!!

    Volvo autonomous car engineer calls Tesla’s Autopilot a ‘wannabe'
     
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  2. glenhurst

    glenhurst Member

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    Wait a minute: Tesla says AP is level 2 autonomous, but then Golson, the article's author, takes the word of Ford's CEO that AP is level 3, and then accepts Volvo's assessment that it's an unsafe level 3 because the driver may have to take over? Seriously? That's a textbook example of a strawman argument. While he's at it, why doesn't Golson get someone to criticize AP because it doesn't cure cancer? This is the worst kind of junk journalism. His editor should have tossed this article in the rubbish bin.
     
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  3. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Well, so are you happy with Tesla saying "we'll drive the car, but you pay attention and take full responsibility if anything requiring split second response occurs." ? I just don't get that part. If they control the car it seems like they should take responsibility for driving the car.
     
  4. Beryl

    Beryl Member

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    Perhaps you should review this thread to gain a better understanding.
    A flight instructor teaches Tesla Autopilot

    IMO, the difference between autopilot and autonomous driving is unclear to the author of that article as well.
     
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  5. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Same question to you - so you're happy with Tesla telling you "we'll drive the car, but if a split second response is required to avoid an accident that's on you." ??
     
  6. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    I don't think there are any videos on Youtube yet of an autonomous Tesla running over a person.

    Volvo, however...
     
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  7. Beryl

    Beryl Member

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    I don't agree with the supposition so I cannot answer that. It is a "When did you stop beating your wife?" question.
     
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  8. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    This has been adjudicated in court. That's what the standard is with aircraft autopilot. The pilots are in control, even if it's on autopilot.
     
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  9. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #9 stopcrazypp, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
    This is a strawman, same as the article. You are driving the car, not Tesla ("we'll"). Autopilot is simply a more advanced version of adaptive cruise control and auto steer (AKA Level 2 autonomy). It is not fully autonomous driving, meaning you are still responsible for monitoring and must be ready to take over at any moment.
     
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  10. ViperDoc

    ViperDoc Roadster 1305

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    Well I am happy with that. Like so many tools and assists, you need to know/understand its limitations. Autopilot will often outperform the driver, but I am okay with the idea that I am ultimately responsible—just so long as I know it, then I know I really need to monitor and be ready to intervene. Just like the autopilot in the airplanes I have flown.
     
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  11. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Actually, the way I read it, the article/Volvo opinion is worse than that - not only are they asserting that AP is Level 3 in direct contravention of Tesla's statements, but they seem to be saying that all Level 3 cars are unsafe because the driver might have to intervene unexpectedly - and that this is why Volvo is going to somehow skip straight to a Level 4 car in a little bit without releasing a Level 3 to the public or gaining much experience on one.

    Which is beginning to sound like FUD as an excuse why you shouldn't get someone else's car before Volvo manages to play catchup, if they ever do...
     
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  12. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Thanks for that thoughtful answer. Can I ask another question just for my own curiosity - did you buy the Model S before AP came out, or had you seen it and/or tested it before you bought?
     
  13. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    How am I still driving the car if the car is controlling ALL the controls - steering brakes and accel? Respectfully disagree.
     
  14. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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  15. P85DEE

    P85DEE Active Member

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    Well, as long as "curiosity" seems to be moving near the forefront in this discussion, just for my on curiosity with regard to the question you're asking ViperDoc, what difference does it make?
     
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  16. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    Big difference. I traded a 2013 Model S for a 2015, but before AP was released. I was an idiot. Not the first stupid thing I've ever done, and won't be the last. But if I'd known the car was going to tell me to "keep your hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment" I would not have bought it. I think Tesla promised something they didn't deliver. I'm not the only one, either. But most seem thrilled with AP. I just wish I was one of them.
     
  17. BriansBucketList

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    IMO, Teslas current "autopilot" consists of two major modules: TACC which is a tool I find very useful, unless I'm following someone running a red light and othe limitations that require my attention, and auto steer which works well most of the time on freeways with lane markings on both sides, but is not limited to freeways. I have auto steered canyon roads with no center divider, and auto steer (as well as TACC) are capable of terrifying passengers, and occasionally me, the driver, but I did pick up a pizza about 20 miles away while actually driving less than 5 minutes. I was paying attention the whole time.

    Without a camera and or radar in the rear, I don't think we'll see a lot more out of the current hardware, although I think signal light detection and reaction are possible, and probably more. It provides tools that are very useful, but this whole discussion needs to occur. I'm not ready to even trust the car with a lane change unless I have a clear view of an open lane, and don't see someone 3-4 cars back closing in at 30 miles over the limit. I don't think the car sees well enough behind itself yet.

    I agree that some automatic control of the car is happening, but I think the litmus test is when the manufacturer will accept liability. Let's watch this play out. Nvidia was describing how much better than a human their current technology is. I want to see Volvo put their money where their mouth is. Right now, most companies are wannabes. Some may say Google is in the lead, but I'm betting Elon has a few tricks up his sleeve we haven't seen yet. I notice impending firmware coming, so time to check out what it does.
     
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  18. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    We had a similar thread discussing what it means to be a "driver" and driving:
    Attorney decides to test legality of texting while on Autopilot

    Even though the computer is aiding in steering in autopilot, you are still in control of the vehicle. The computer can't decide for example to stop and make a turn. Or to change lanes on its own to reach a certain destination. And as relevant to the discussion, you still need to react to emergency situations.

    The autopilot name comes from planes. When a plane is on autopilot, there is no doubt the pilot is still piloting the plane and is responsible for monitoring the conditions. I'm not sure why this becomes a foreign concept when it comes to cars.
     
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  19. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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  20. Electricfan

    Electricfan Member

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    So you're absolutely fine with an accident being 100% your responsibility, even if a life is lost, if it happens because you are reading an email and AP drives off the road or something?
     

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