Tesla's Hardware 4: Will it improve FSD?

We discuss Tesla's Hardware 4 leaks and the various improvements that it may bring to FSD. There is both good and bad news.

This is a clip from Tesla Motors Club Podcast #35. The full podcast video is available here: Does the FSD recall mean we're finally getting Beta V11? | Tesla Motors Club Podcast #35

 

[EVRider-FL]

Correct. But we all know Elons history of truthfulness..

Actually, Elon's predictions have been somewhat accurate when talking about hardware or production topics. It's software that he has trouble with.

 

[ewoodrick]

+1. Why else would Tesla develop HW4 if not to improve AP, EAP, FSD? More better cameras and HD radar could only help improve, how much and when is anyone's guess.

HW4 was started before HW3 started shipping. The state of the art in AI has been moving pretty quickly, so the reason they came out with HW4 is mostly just to keep better capabilities in the car.
They do the same thing with the rest of the car.

 

[ewoodrick]

I like to use FSD but the biggest FSD limitation, IMO is the current
inability to estimate and anticipate what would be a safe driving speed.



The speed sign could have been also hidden by a truck,
but FSD is not able to estimate and anticipate the correct safe driving speed.

My FSD slows dow all the time. It anticipates situations and slows down appropriately. The top end speeds while indeed determined by the map are actually based on "legal speed limits"

I remember back in the early days, there was a slight rise, followed by a drop and a pretty hard curve. To start with, as the car crossed the peak, it saw the curve and just panicked. It slowly got better, being able to do it at a slightly slower speed and then eventually as it does today, slows down just like most drivers do.

 

[ewoodrick]

Correct. But we all know Elons history of truthfulness..

As the courts are now proving, there's a difference between truthfulness and hopes and dreams.
Elon has high hopes and dreams.

 

[Watts_Up]

My FSD slows dow all the time. It anticipates situations and slows down appropriately.

I noticed that FSD has a tendency to slow dow when approaching a traffic ligh while still turned green,
which is a safe preventing action, but you need to be prepare to accelerate anyway in this situation
if there is another car just behind, otherwise the other driver might be surprised.

Something simillar occured when FSD detects the presence of pedestrians or bicycles.

However, I think your above comment is a little bit optimistic...

The top end speeds while indeed determined by the map are actually based on "legal speed limits"

I can show you that the "legal' speed displayed on the Tesla screen,
in the case of my example above, when inide the curve, was 65 mph !!!

- Even so, a 30 mph could be a little bit challenging because there is not too much space,​

may be one foot, between the outside edge of the lane and the protection rail.​

​

- The cuve is also flat and not really slented toward the inside of the curve,​

making it slippery when rainning.​

 

[2101Guy]

Actually, Elon's predictions have been somewhat accurate when talking about hardware or production topics. It's software that he has trouble with.

Are Cybertrucks and Roadsters and Plaid Plus models and solar shingles and $20k ceramic Plaid brake kit options considered production topics?

 

[2101Guy]

As the courts are now proving, there's a difference between truthfulness and hopes and dreams.
Elon has high hopes and dreams.

Each case is tried on its own merits.

Let’s see how this one turns out then let’s chat

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over 'misleading' claims about self-driving

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over "allegedly misleading the public" regarding its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving.

electrek.co

 

[CyberGus]

I like to use FSD but the biggest FSD limitation, IMO is the current
inability to estimate and anticipate what would be a safe driving speed.

Currently FSD driving speed is based on the GPS location
and speed signs that the camera might notice.

But it would require an AI computer with infinite heuristic capabilities,
to be close to the way any driver generaly handle any basic road situation.

I realise that when using FSD, the car is great a staying in middle it its lane,
but when there is a curve, I always need to adjust the speed manually
using the right steering wheel button.

As an example, for the following picture below, FSD is not able to notice the speed sign
and keeps running at the 65 mph speed limit.

Honestly, I never really noticed either this speed sign because I am always on the left lane,
since the right lane is used by cars who previously entered into the freeway just before.
However, any driver would slow down, because it is technically impossible to safely
take this turn at high speed.

The speed sign could have been also hidden by a truck,
but FSD is not able to estimate and anticipate the correct safe driving speed.

View attachment 911120

If only we could move the phantom-braking events to these sharp curves

 

[EVRider-FL]

Are Cybertrucks and Roadsters and Plaid Plus models and solar shingles and $20k ceramic Plaid brake kit options considered production topics?

Fair enough. Not so good at predicting production for things that are further out, but that’s partly due to changing priorities. HW4 is probably more or less done, so I give those predictions more credibility.

 

[Dewg]

Each case is tried on its own merits.

Let’s see how this one turns out then let’s chat

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over 'misleading' claims about self-driving

Tesla is now facing a class action lawsuit over "allegedly misleading the public" regarding its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving.

electrek.co

Yeah - lots of "Tesla facing class action lawsuit", but nothing about any of them going to trial. The only class action that went to trial that I can see was over securities fraud, his tweets regarding taking Tesla private with "Funding Secured". BTW - Musk won that case with a unanimous jury verdict.

 

[2101Guy]

Yeah - lots of "Tesla facing class action lawsuit", but nothing about any of them going to trial. The only class action that went to trial that I can see was over securities fraud, his tweets regarding taking Tesla private with "Funding Secured". BTW - Musk won that case with a unanimous jury verdict.

Patience young padwan. Class Actions can often take years to go to trial or settle. (have you noticed the drastic change in wording from the 2016-2018 FSD promises from Tesla, compared to current wording about what to expect? DRASTIC change. There is a major reason for that).

Feel free to contact either of these if you want more details on status. Its a FREE consult..

Tesla Lawsuit | Class Action for Autopilot & Self-Driving | May 2023

Anyone with a Tesla that has Autopilot or Self-Driving technology may qualify for compensation from a Tesla lawsuit. Get legal help now.

www.sokolovelaw.com

Tesla Class Action Lawsuit 2023 - Autopilot & Self-Driving Technology

If you purchased or leased a Tesla since 2016, contact Simmons Hanly Conroy now. You may qualify for compensation from a Tesla class action lawsuit.

www.simmonsfirm.com

 

[ShawnA]

Hi All,

Returning to the HW4 topic,
I look forward to the wider angle view on the repeater cameras.
No longer looking nearly straight back, it looks like there will be
less need to pull into an intersection and the creep zone looking
for cross traffic.
It should work better for all 4 way stops and may even help
Chuck Cook on his intersections.

Shawn

 

[jebinc]

But it really will be a true statement in the next few years with HW4. Trust The Great Hypester!

The Great Charlatan.

 

[Watts_Up]

Hi All,

Returning to the HW4 topic,
I look forward to the wider angle view on the repeater cameras.
No longer looking nearly straight back, it looks like there will be
less need to pull into an intersection and the creep zone looking
for cross traffic.
It should work better for all 4 way stops and may even help
Chuck Cook on his intersections.

Shawn

This is really a design flaw that I noticed immediatly.
For city driving, FSD needs cameras at each angle of the cars.
The side cameras located on the B-pillar are not sufficient.
All the other autonomous cars that I saw always have a Lidar at each corner.

Chuck Cook demonstrated this issue a long time ago.
It is impossible to make a left turn otherwise without
having the front of the car entering into the crossing lane.

Especially with the Model 3, which is lower than the hood of many SUVs
and are blocking the view when parked at a street corner.

In one of his videos, Chuck Cook even had a
big 18-wheels semi passing inches in front of his bumper,
while trying making a left turn.

 

[JHCCAZ]

This is really a design flaw that I noticed immediatly.
For city driving, FSD needs cameras at each angle of the cars.
The side cameras located on the B-pillar are not sufficient.
All the other autonomous cars that I saw always have a Lidar at each corner.

Chuck Cook demonstrated this issue a long time ago.
It is impossible to make a left turn otherwise without
having the front of the car entering into the crossing lane.

Especially with the Model 3, which is lower than the hood of many SUVs
and are blocking the view when parked at a street corner.

In one of his videos, Chuck Cook even had a
big 18-wheels semi passing inches in front of his bumper,
while trying making a left turn.

As a consistent proponent of corner cameras, I would say that Chuck's difficult turn would benefit from a more forward placement of a side looking camera. To this end, the new repeater that can see a little bit forward of 90° will help some, compared to the B pillar location. Even that won't help as much as a corner camera near the headlights. In many left turns, the current placement is okay because there isn't any obstructing infrastructure or other vehicles - but we all know how often there are such obstructions.

For me, the more common UPL difficulty is trying to make it a left turn across oncoming traffic, while trying to see past an oncoming left-turning car in the turn bay facing me. You know, when you move your head until it practically touches the window, trying to see the high-speed lane that is blocked by the opposite waiting car. A camera at the front left corner is the easiest solution for that.

 

[jebinc]

This is really a design flaw that I noticed immediatly.
For city driving, FSD needs cameras at each angle of the cars.
The side cameras located on the B-pillar are not sufficient.
All the other autonomous cars that I saw always have a Lidar at each corner.

Chuck Cook demonstrated this issue a long time ago.
It is impossible to make a left turn otherwise without
having the front of the car entering into the crossing lane.

Especially with the Model 3, which is lower than the hood of many SUVs
and are blocking the view when parked at a street corner.

In one of his videos, Chuck Cook even had a
big 18-wheels semi passing inches in front of his bumper,
while trying making a left turn.

Yep, junk.

 

[ewoodrick]

I can show you that the "legal' speed displayed on the Tesla screen,
in the case of my example above, when inide the curve, was 65 mph !!!

- Even so, a 30 mph could be a little bit challenging because there is not too much space,​

may be one foot, between the outside edge of the lane and the protection rail.​

​

​

This is a great example of what a computer would do vs what a computer would do.
A lot of people will tend to freak out about a wall only a foot from the road.

A computer validates that it will be able to avoid a collision and could happily be within an inch of it.

I had one recently, wife freaked out, car calmly drove by it.

 

[Testing1209]

HW4 will not improve FSD, It will be even more limited, for example i upgraded my tesla from AP2 to AP3 (MCU2 Upgrade), and now i get the defeat device warning, and the autopark is worse. How will HW4 improve it? Thanks to the people that complained and then tesla implemented the cheat device detection.

 

[Yelobird]

HW4 will not improve FSD, It will be even more limited, for example i upgraded my tesla from AP2 to AP3 (MCU2 Upgrade), and now i get the defeat device warning, and the autopark is worse. How will HW4 improve it? Thanks to the people that complained and then tesla implemented the cheat device detection.

What I Think you mean is people found and used a defeat device to bypass safety measures and they were forced to create a defeat device warning defense. Defeat the rules and all will be forced to follow the rules.

 

[Testing1209]

What I Think you mean is people found and used a defeat device to bypass safety measures and they were forced to create a defeat device warning defense. Defeat the rules and all will be forced to follow the rules.

Yeah, I meant that. First step is to convince the NHTSA to remove these regulations so Tesla can proceed with their Autopilot progress.