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Tesla's response to me leaking info about the P100D?

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Definitely would agree.

In any case, going to certainly sleep on it. I'm denying myself the ability to act on anything right now.

I've completely disabled my car's connectivity with Tesla for now as well. I can't use the mobile app or anything right now either as a result, unfortunately. But at this point, I don't trust them not to screw around, and this is the only way I can ensure that Tesla can't put their paws into anything on my car while I'm not watching. Kind of lucky I was watching tonight or I would be dropped to 2.12.45 right now. I've backed up logs of all Tesla's actions that they've taken on my car against my explicit instructions and without my permission.

I really hope Tesla does the right thing and reaches out on this one.

got back from long week and reading this. I installed this update at 5:50pm if that helps, i.e. If your remote rollback was before this time, modulo update poll, then you have data. Haven't seen anything indicating more. This could just be you're ahead of most on the update frequency... Hey, I'm trying to assume best intent...

definitely sleep on it. We know Elon dislikes having his reveals trumped (um, 'D', anyone? ;-)), though I would hope there's not anything retaliatory going on here. I strongly suspect no one will reach out proactively, though I would recommend reaching out to any FW folk you've been working with, re. White hat work, to chat through things with them directly...

2c (USD, not CAD - sorry.. ;-))
 
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I suspect that after seeing info posted about P100D, those folks might feel a bit wary of any conversation at this point. I could be wrong, of course.

Yep, we could all be wrong. The reality is likely in-between ;-)

I'd default to best intent first, i.e. It's a rollback for legitimate concerns and coincidental. Attempting to talk, without going to defcon 1 when there's no one reaching out from TM, is my intent. It is HIGHLY unlikely anyone from TM will reach out directly to Jason.

Of course, this could be a reaction to the very public, weak, sha256 (5 alphanumeric?) spoiling something private 25 days ahead of reveal. Like you say, you'd find that out pretty quickly with a phone call (or rather the lack of them being answered/returned). If any case, I hope cooler heads prevail in the morning
 
Put it this way. Tesla could have just left well enough alone and all would be fine right now. Heck, they probably could have just called me and convinced me to post some stuff saying that the P100D was a prank or something.

Instead they decided to just childishly retaliate by going into my car remotely (which they do not own, and did not have permission to access), and made it so that it would re-download and attempt to downgrade to an earlier firmware. And to what end? What exactly would doing this accomplish besides irritate me? Seems like someone over there is making some very poor decisions.
 
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Put it this way. Tesla could have just left well enough alone and all would be fine right now. Heck, they probably could have just called me and convinced me to post some stuff saying that the P100D was a prank or something.

Instead they decided to just childishly retaliate by going into my car remotely (which they do not own, and did not have permission to access), and made it so that it would re-download and attempt to downgrade to an earlier firmware. And to what end? What exactly would doing this accomplish besides irritate me? Seems like someone over there is making some very poor decisions.

While I'm sure you didn't mean it this way (and have since removed the tweet - good call, btw), when I saw your tweet about it to Elon/TM, it looked like you were taunting them with the whole 'I know your secrets'. Just my reaction to it, whether you meant it that way or not. So surely someone else might have reacted that way too.

Then I can see how someone might have felt that since you'd already posted some information, you were about to post more. I'm not saying that was what you were going to do, but easy enough to see how your actions could be interpreted that way.

Totally agree with MikeBur that cooler heads will prevail in the morning.
 
Put it this way. Tesla could have just left well enough alone and all would be fine right now. Heck, they probably could have just called me and convinced me to post some stuff saying that the P100D was a prank or something.

Instead they decided to just childishly retaliate by going into my car remotely (which they do not own, and did not have permission to access), and made it so that it would re-download and attempt to downgrade to an earlier firmware. And to what end? What exactly would doing this accomplish besides irritate me? Seems like someone over there is making some very poor decisions.

Not saying they didn't do this, though why would they do this via the updater rather than just ssh'ing in? (Or did they? Still playing catch up). You definitely know better than me.

My thought was *IF* this is via the updater then presumably there'll be more roll backs in the morning. If not, then you'll have to call them - or tweet - them.

Personally, and based on experience, I'd suggest TM bringing you *into* the trusted circle more with agreements on what can/cannot be shared publicly. I've had to deal with my fair share of industry zeal (just a different industry ;-)) and whilst this may sound counter-intuitive to some, I believe you would do more to push the envelope as an evangelist. Heck, your trusted communication is held in high esteem already and being more aligned would be very powerful.
 
While I'm sure you didn't mean it this way (and have since removed the tweet - good call, btw), when I saw your tweet about it to Elon/TM, it looked like you were taunting them with the whole 'I know your secrets'. Just my reaction to it, whether you meant it that way or not. So surely someone else might have reacted that way too.

Then I can see how someone might have felt that since you'd already posted some information, you were about to post more. I'm not saying that was what you were going to do, but easy enough to see how your actions could be interpreted that way.

Totally agree with MikeBur that cooler heads will prevail in the morning.

good point on the potential reaction. I read tweet as good-natured banter, though could understand it being seen this way too. I'd also be unsurprised given all the F9 launch pressure, if this was intended to reduce risk as an intentional act, that thiswas not thought through fully.

- - - Updated - - -

You're making an unsupported assumption. Could be somebody's hacking you. Pretty sure you can't be sure it's Tesla messing with you, even if it is.

I believe the data is there to support it from the logs. It was intentional and originated from TM with their root pw. The question is if this is intentional to one person or indicative of larger rollback - which is what Jason was asking if others has this same situation.
 
It's entirely unsurprising that Tesla will do everything it can to prevent their future roadmap being revealed on anything but their own terms. If that means pissing off a high profile, high capabilities hacker of their cars, they have already taken the executive decision to do so. Can't say I blame Tesla for this one, they are in the process of asking thousands of reservation holders to confirm their model X. Talk of a P100D or AP v2.0 on the horizon is literally the last thing they want because it's pretty likely none of these will be available as an upgrade to existing owners.
 
While I'm sure you didn't mean it this way (and have since removed the tweet - good call, btw), when I saw your tweet about it to Elon/TM, it looked like you were taunting them with the whole 'I know your secrets'. Just my reaction to it, whether you meant it that way or not. So surely someone else might have reacted that way too.

Then I can see how someone might have felt that since you'd already posted some information, you were about to post more. I'm not saying that was what you were going to do, but easy enough to see how your actions could be interpreted that way.

Totally agree with MikeBur that cooler heads will prevail in the morning.

My intention was actually to just preserve a note in time to sort of timestamp the P100D a little, publicly, while having a bit of fun in the process. At 3AM I hadn't figured anyone would even bother trying to crack the hash.

Also, I didn't actually remove the tweet, I just unpinned it. Since it's a "reply" technically, it doesn't show up unless you look at "Tweets and Replies." I'll contemplate removing it tomorrow after I've had some sleep. Doesn't make a lot of sense to, though, since it's been re-posted all of the the place anyway.

Not saying they didn't do this, though why would they do this via the updater rather than just ssh'ing in? (Or did they? Still playing catch up). You definitely know better than me.

My thought was *IF* this is via the updater then presumably there'll be more roll backs in the morning. If not, then you'll have to call them - or tweet - them.

Personally, and based on experience, I'd suggest TM bringing you *into* the trusted circle more with agreements on what can/cannot be shared publicly. I've had to deal with my fair share of industry zeal (just a different industry ;-)) and whilst this may sound counter-intuitive to some, I believe you would do more to push the envelope as an evangelist. Heck, your trusted communication is held in high esteem already and being more aligned would be very powerful.

I had SSH blocked in iptables, along with some other things I figured Tesla could use to manipulate my car remotely. I didn't think they could control so much directly via the updater without a patch of some sort first. I stand corrected on that thinking.

I agree that it would make much more sense to have me as an ally rather than an enemy. Taking a swing that I had to parry probably wasn't best way to make friends, though.

You're making an unsupported assumption. Could be somebody's hacking you. Pretty sure you can't be sure it's Tesla messing with you, even if it is.

lol. Assumption? Tell me, who else besides Tesla can command the car via their VPN? You know, the one protected with their certificates. I sat here and watched the data come down from a Tesla server IP, over their encrypted VPN, again, protected with their certificates. So either someone hacked *Tesla* and we're all screwed (since basically everything about the cars can be controlled from the VPN), or someone at Tesla did this to my car. Either is bad for Tesla, IMO.
 
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wk ... all due respect, but is it possible they felt YOU took the first swing today? More than one way to look at today's events. I assume because of your past interactions with the engineering team, you've built up some relationship. All of a sudden, they see you informing the world (and the top guy directly, Elon himself) that they didn't keep something very well hidden, instead of just telling them directly. I can't help but think that they might feel a bit burned by someone they thought was an ally. Just another way to look at it.
 
wk ... all due respect, but is it possible they felt YOU took the first swing today? More than one way to look at today's events. I assume because of your past interactions with the engineering team, you've built up some relationship. All of a sudden, they see you informing the world (and the top guy directly, Elon himself) that they didn't keep something very well hidden, instead of just telling them directly. I can't help but think that they might feel a bit burned by someone they thought was an ally. Just another way to look at it.

As much as I love your work Wk057, I can't help but agree with Bonnie on this subject.

It's kinda like a "Look at me, I hacked your stuff and I found something you didn't wanna make public for a while". Their response is a "Fk you, we'll just cut you off from future updates".

I kinda understand where they're coming from, they're trying to be as secretive as AAPL. Also who knows, with the people on the fence about confirming their Model X/buying Model S, they'll be all confused now and will most likely hold off til P100D which realistically could be 6months away.

As much as I'm excited to see the P100D info, and I really appreciate all your posts and work in relation to hacking the parts, I do see it from TSLA's point of view, and I understand why they took the actions they did.
 
Ouch. Now I'm having second thoughts as to whether it was "the right thing to do" to post the decryption of the hash wk tweeted. But in a short while all this will be forgotten. I understand the need for Tesla to not Osbourne themselves too much, but on the other hand with the relentless pace of innovation and incremental improvements that they have, and Elon not being exactly shy about making bold and sometimes too optimistic statements about the future, all this really did was messing a little with their timing. In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter much.
 
I might just do that. I've been holding back quite a bit out of respect for Tesla in general. That may very well end tonight.

Really? Tweeting Elon with a "secret" you call holding back? For a super smart guy, it was a really stupid thing to do. I don't understand why you felt the need to do that, and I don't blame Tesla one bit.

Sorry, Jason, imho you stepped over the line.
 
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wk ... all due respect, but is it possible they felt YOU took the first swing today? More than one way to look at today's events. I assume because of your past interactions with the engineering team, you've built up some relationship. All of a sudden, they see you informing the world (and the top guy directly, Elon himself) that they didn't keep something very well hidden, instead of just telling them directly. I can't help but think that they might feel a bit burned by someone they thought was an ally. Just another way to look at it.

Completely agree.
 
wk ... all due respect, but is it possible they felt YOU took the first swing today? More than one way to look at today's events. I assume because of your past interactions with the engineering team, you've built up some relationship. All of a sudden, they see you informing the world (and the top guy directly, Elon himself) that they didn't keep something very well hidden, instead of just telling them directly. I can't help but think that they might feel a bit burned by someone they thought was an ally. Just another way to look at it.

With all due respect to you and others on this as well, I just don't see it that way. I mean really, think about it. 24 hours ago I had something like 40 whole twitter followers, a dozen of which I know in person and have nothing to do with Tesla related stuff. I've tweeted random nonsense to @TeslaMotors and @elonmusk a bunch of times, never expecting a response, and all in good fun. I don't really do social media, besides TMC (if that counts).

Going through the update on my car last night at like 2AM or so I spotted the P100D badge, among other things. The P100D had already been elsewhere in the firmware for *months* prior and I never even bothered to say a word, cryptically or not, publicly about it or any of the several dozen things, big and small, that Tesla includes in these production firmware versions that the public probably shouldn't see yet.... by my own choice to do so, not because of any agreement or relationship with Tesla implied or otherwise.

I figured I'd have a little fun, and sort of provably time-stamp the fact that Tesla included something like the P100D in the firmware already... without actually saying so. I didn't think for a second that anyone besides myself would ever post the hash input, or bother to attempt to crack it, regardless of the short length message. Maybe that was up-at-3AM sleepiness, but thinking back I still am somewhat impressed that someone out of those ~28 people on my twitter made the effort, and so quickly. And what's done is done.

So, not to sound like a jackass, but I'm going to be very blunt and make one thing perfectly clear here. Understand that I'm under ZERO obligation to keep ANYTHING I find out about Tesla, the Model S, etc, through my efforts tinkering around with my own car, private. The fact that I DO keep a ton of this stuff completely to myself should be more than enough to vindicate me of any perception of events that suggest bad intentions on my part with the small thing I unintentionally let slip here. Especially on Tesla's side of this, since they certainly know full well what's in the firmware more than anyone and certainly know everything I know that I've NOT posted about.

And again, if people reading about a potential P100D being talked about by me were such a big deal, Tesla should have reached out to me and said so. "Hey man, not cool," with a brief conversation that probably would have ended with my apologies and subsequent tweeting/posting of something like, "Hah, gotcha! Early April fools!" to cover up my leak. This, or one of 100 different things could have been done or not done to just have made the whole thing a non-issue.

Instead, for some reason, Tesla decided to remotely access my car without permission and attempt to make changes that really have nothing to do with the situation whatsoever. I mean seriously, what does downgrading my P85D to 2.12.45 vs leaving it at 2.12.126 (with 2.13.77 staged to be installed in evening) gain them in this situation? I REALLY want to know what they think the answer to this one is, because from my perspective it gains them nothing whatsoever besides a) alerting me to the fact that this is the kind of tactic they're going to use, and b) p***ing me off. It does nothing to rectify the P100D leak situation whatsoever. I managed to catch them in the act and disable the VPN connection and the updater, however, but too late to keep 2.13.77 staged, so, I'll just have to keep my chargers at 80A for now I guess.

Anyway, regardless of what you all may think of me and my intentions, Tesla should have been better than remotely screwing with an owner's firmware for no real reason in this situation. Regardless of how they felt about what I've done, that was NOT the right thing to do on their part in response, and I'm not going to tolerate it.
 
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................ all this really did was messing a little with their timing..........

The ones being messed with most likely see this messing with their affairs very differently.

There is a new thread on the subject and it is published elsewhere

This 'messing a little' is likely to have consequences



................ In the big scheme of things it doesn't matter much.

It is up to the messed party to say how much this messing with their affairs matters to them and it is up to Tesla to act as they see fit to protect themselves from being further messed with in this way.

It is a poetic justice when Tesla turns the tables and attempts to downgrade his car to an earlier firmware most likely in order to protect themselves from being further messed with, that seems to mess a little with wk057


Is it legal to hack and publish information obtained that way?
 
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Really people? Tesla has included information on an unreleased model in software deployed to customer cars. If they wanted to keep this secret they should have done their jobs in firmware packaging. Tesla software team has been lazy and simply got caught with their pants down.

-Tesla knows several people have root access to their personal cars
-Tesla knows wk057 has access and has been known to share info he finds if deemed unharmful
-Tesla knows info about a new battery option is extremely interesting info
-Tesla knows info about a new potential facelift is extremely interesting info <- I guess this is what wk057 hasnt shared

Yet knowing all of this Tesla still chose to bundle these pictures etc in production-grade consumer firmware installed automatically. This is 100% Tesla messing up as they so easily could have avoided this info being spread into customer firmware. If you want to keep something secret then dont spread information on purpose containing these secrets. Its that simple.

Did you who attack him now also attack the person(s) who leaked the photo of the P85D many days before the launch?
 
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