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Tesla's rollout of high-power wall chargers - where are they?
- Thread starter DaveT
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I'm not sure what I think of this. On one hand, additional destination charging is great. But I wonder if it makes Tesla appear "elitist" in the eyes of the public & especially other EV owners? MS can use public sector J1772 charging as well as private sector stations at shopping centers, hotels, etc. Sure, charging at ~20 MPH isn't the fastest, but it beats no charging at all in areas not served by an SC. Installing proprietary stations in lieu of "open" stations seems a little disingenuous.
Would it it be perhaps better to install 70A J1772 stations labeled "Courtesy of Tesla" to spread the goodwill? Single-charger MS will still only charge at 40A anyway. While there is clearly a difference for dual-charger equipped cars, installing "free" 70A L2 charging might create a groundswell of support for adoption of 70A L2 as the new normal. And it's still a heck of a lot faster than charging at a 30A limited J1772 station.
i look at the SC rollout differently than this HPWC initiative. We paid for supercharging one way or another. An SC station is a Tesla oasis, generally positioned along main travel routes, yet located usually out of the way enough as to not inconvenience others. This initiative is just the opposite.
How often do you think these spaces will be ICEd, either out of spite or necessity? At a busy destination, my guess would be plenty.
Would it it be perhaps better to install 70A J1772 stations labeled "Courtesy of Tesla" to spread the goodwill? Single-charger MS will still only charge at 40A anyway. While there is clearly a difference for dual-charger equipped cars, installing "free" 70A L2 charging might create a groundswell of support for adoption of 70A L2 as the new normal. And it's still a heck of a lot faster than charging at a 30A limited J1772 station.
i look at the SC rollout differently than this HPWC initiative. We paid for supercharging one way or another. An SC station is a Tesla oasis, generally positioned along main travel routes, yet located usually out of the way enough as to not inconvenience others. This initiative is just the opposite.
How often do you think these spaces will be ICEd, either out of spite or necessity? At a busy destination, my guess would be plenty.
Not sure they work anyway.
I charged at an HPWC equipped hotel a couple of evenings ago, with my dual charger equipped MS and I was only getting 38amps. Seems like it was not installed correctly. So don't get your hopes up.
And it was not usually free, I had to be very nice to the hotel concierge. I was only dining there.
I totally agree with your elitist sentiments. I don't want Leafs and other EV's clogging up the infrstructure when our cars are the only EV's that can travel a meaningful distance.
I don't think anything prevents development of an appropriate adapter to allow Leafs, Volts, Sparks, etc from using these stations. I presume the onboard electronics in those vehicles will permit only the appropriate current to flow and a hotel won't quibble about the type of vehicle being charged. So, nothing elitist, simply a need for the adapter.
If the hotel limits access to overnight guests ... or restaurant patrons ... then that will certainly keep the majority of vehicles from stopping for a charge. And if there's enough demand, and the hotel is getting enough extra business, then there's an incentive to add more charging stations.
If the hotel limits access to overnight guests ... or restaurant patrons ... then that will certainly keep the majority of vehicles from stopping for a charge. And if there's enough demand, and the hotel is getting enough extra business, then there's an incentive to add more charging stations.
80 Amp J1772 EVSEs are available from Clipper Creek and others. They are a much better choice than the HPWC since all EVs can use them. Installing Tesla only L2 charging will not generate goodwill for Tesla Motors or Tesla owners.
SuperCharging is different and reasonable to be Tesla only because Tesla owners are paying the bills.
GSP
SuperCharging is different and reasonable to be Tesla only because Tesla owners are paying the bills.
GSP
Tesla is ding the right thing by giving away HPWCs to destinations. Great for Tesla owners, promotes EV awareness, pushes other companies to make EVs that can be used for long distance travel and compatible with the Tesla charging network which is far more extensive than any other network, better designed and more reliable. Any other company that wants to make an EV compatible with Tesla's network is welcome to do so, Tesla will provide them with the technical info they need to know. All Our Patent Are Belong To You | Blog | Tesla Motors
I don't understand why people are complaining about this program. Tesla is a business, tesla makes cars that use a specific power connector, tesla gives (maybe actually discounts...) chargers, er EVSEs, to businesses that want to support tesla car owners. It's theirs to use as they see fit. end of story. why is this any different from a restaurant or bar offer free charging to iphone owners that are customers? It's their choice.
Businesses can choose to charge for use of their EVSEs or not. Part of what makes this attractive is the destination nature of it. Superchargers get us to the destination and the destination takes care of us while we are there. sounds like EVirvana to me.
Finally, on the not free nature of charging, I urge everyone to not only patronize places that have done this but also make sure the staff knows that you chose to dine/stay/whatever there specifically because of the charger. Lets work to close the feedback loop. The more establishments that see success from hosting chargers, the more will put them in. I think we are getting close to the tipping point where EVSEs will be a standard hotel amenity. Sort of like magic fingers for your car...
Businesses can choose to charge for use of their EVSEs or not. Part of what makes this attractive is the destination nature of it. Superchargers get us to the destination and the destination takes care of us while we are there. sounds like EVirvana to me.
Finally, on the not free nature of charging, I urge everyone to not only patronize places that have done this but also make sure the staff knows that you chose to dine/stay/whatever there specifically because of the charger. Lets work to close the feedback loop. The more establishments that see success from hosting chargers, the more will put them in. I think we are getting close to the tipping point where EVSEs will be a standard hotel amenity. Sort of like magic fingers for your car...
djp
Model 3 Performance
I have no issues with Tesla building out a L2 charging network. The problem is they're using a proprietary connector instead of an industry standard, and excluding all other EVs (and Roadsters). The program will be seen by owners of other EVs as elitist, and runs counter to Tesla's corporate mission to further EV adoption.
They could easily provide a HPWC with a J1772 plug to open up the network. The Model S plug is fine for Superchargers, where we don't have an established industry L3 standard, but public destinations like hotels and restaurants should be installing standard L2 charge stations that are available to all EV owners.
I suspect the positive mind-share Tesla will get will outweigh the negative perspective.
Additionally, between this program and the Superchargers, it might be the best opportunity we have to see the industry largely settle on a single combined (AC & DC) connector standard, provided a significant enough critical mass of these get installed.
Additionally, between this program and the Superchargers, it might be the best opportunity we have to see the industry largely settle on a single combined (AC & DC) connector standard, provided a significant enough critical mass of these get installed.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
If hotels and restaurants find that they attract Tesla owners as a result of having HPWCs installed, they should be able to make the leap to concluding that if they install J1772s, they could attract even more EV owners. (But for the record, Tesla has also supplied some J1772s along with HPWCs, at some locations.)
(And get yourself on the waiting list for the HPWC - Roadster adapter from Henry Sharp, so you can take advantage of the HPWCs in the wild - shipping is on hold right now while troubleshooting a timing problem, but it should be shipping again shortly.)
djp
Model 3 Performance
My point is they should be supporting industry standards to encourage EV adoption. We already have a perfectly good standard for L2, a standards war with fragmented charge networks doesn't help the EV cause.
@bonnie, thanks I'm on Henry's list. The compatibility issue he's facing is a perfect example of why a standard J1772 plug would be better than using adapters with a proprietary plug.
djp
Model 3 Performance
I've seen plenty of Leafs and Volts charging at hotels. A short range EV at a nearby hotel for a conference needs a charge station even more than a Tesla. Plus Tesla won't be the only long range EV forever.
If Tesla included a HPWC to J1772 adapter with every destination charger, I'd be a lot happier with the program. As is, I'm seeing an extensive network of high amp L2 stations being built that I can't access as a Roadster owner.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
There are plenty of long discussions / threads about why J1772 may not be the way to go. The easiest explanation (imo) is that if you take someone who is completely new to EVs & charging, they have zero issues with the HPWC plug. The J1772 is a little more intimidating. If we want to encourage adoption, usability and perception need to be factored in.
Glad you're on the wait list for the adapter. Regardless of the argument over J1772 and who is right or wrong, the reality is there are a lot of HPWCs out there and the adapter opens up a whole new world to Roadster owners. (Btw, it's a small timing issue & I have reason to believe it's going to be resolved shortly.)
As I noted in the other thread, this is about marketing. The HPWC must be installed in a prominent location, so guests can see the Model S or next year the Model X "on display" charging. The hotel gets business from Tesla owners, and Tesla gets the visibility. It's brilliant.
No it doesn't help Roadsters, but Tesla is no longer making Roadsters and the installed base is now down to 5% of all Teslas and dropping fast.
No it doesn't help Roadsters, but Tesla is no longer making Roadsters and the installed base is now down to 5% of all Teslas and dropping fast.
Contention.
Tesla is selling a long-range BEV. It's a car that it's selling as being able to be used for long trips. Part of that means staying at hotels, home away from home where you need charging. These chargers are going to be an important part of ownership and part of Tesla's network. If they just put generic J1772s they increase contention when contention needs to get _lower_. If a hotel wants to meet general plug-in demand instead they can turn down Tesla's offer and install a J1772.
When other manufacturers get round to making a long-range BEV they can build their own charging network or join with the first mover.
There are over 50,000 hotels in the USA. There are less than 2,450 Roadsters worldwide and the car is no longer being produced. It's legacy technology and Tesla is moving forwards. If Tesla does anything for Roadster owners it will be to help move them away from the legacy technology, just as they're planning for the battery.
djp
Model 3 Performance
@ItsNotAboutTheMoney - imagine a world where every car manufacturer owned their own gas stations, and to fill a GM car you'd need to find a GM station, and to fill a Ford car you'd need a Ford station. Adapters would be available, but you'd need to carry a trunk full of nozzles to make it work.
This is the road Tesla is going down for L2. The purpose of industry standards is to avoid this type of mess, prevent confusion and encourage consumer adoption. The J1772 plug isn't perfect, but it works with all EVs (including Model S) and can be just as fast as an HPWC.
If we want the EV industry to take off, we need common standards. Starting a standards war over L2 isn't helping.
The 'contention' argument will be seen as elitist by other EV owners. It send the message that "your Leaf isn't good enough to charge at my hotel."
This is a bigger issue than Roadsters, having multiple standards for L2 will be an industry wide problem and slow down EV adoption.
This is the road Tesla is going down for L2. The purpose of industry standards is to avoid this type of mess, prevent confusion and encourage consumer adoption. The J1772 plug isn't perfect, but it works with all EVs (including Model S) and can be just as fast as an HPWC.
If we want the EV industry to take off, we need common standards. Starting a standards war over L2 isn't helping.
The 'contention' argument will be seen as elitist by other EV owners. It send the message that "your Leaf isn't good enough to charge at my hotel."
This is a bigger issue than Roadsters, having multiple standards for L2 will be an industry wide problem and slow down EV adoption.
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