Teslas to show side cameras when backing up. Yes!

[Uncle Paul]

Tesla cameras are located to assist Autopilot. They can be repurposed for driver visualization, but will not be optimal for that purpose.

 

[Knightshade]

The same way land Rover can show you what's under the front of the car. By caching the images as it rolls forward

It shows lane markings painted on the ground and handicapped spots the same way

We've been over this (many times)- LRs cameras are located MUCH lower on the vehicle (not as low as the 360 view cars, but a lot lower than teslas)

And of course the "I remember what I saw in a spot hours ago, no idea what's there now!" thing isn't as helpful when pulling OUT which half the use of those overhead 360 views

 

[MrMannnilow]

How do you propose the cameras, mounted at the top of the windshield, show you what's on the ground right in front of your front bumper?

I guess you should reread your comment. I mentioned nothing about 360.

The camera's in the windshield clearly see what's ON THE GROUND in front of the vehicle as it moves forward. So my reply remains the same for pulling forward. It can cache the images and display if there is a concrete parking stop or whatever IN FRONT OF YOU

 

[Knightshade]

I guess you should reread your comment. I mentioned nothing about 360.

The camera's in the windshield clearly see what's ON THE GROUND in front of the vehicle as it moves forward.

I mean, it can't though, if you mean directly on the ground in front of it...because it's mounted to the top of the windshield.

It can see what's several feet beyond it.

Which isn't much help if you're turning into a tight parking spot, since the car would never have some of the ground in its front field of view doing that.

It can't show you a cached picture of something it never saw.

I
So my reply remains the same for pulling forward. It can cache the images and display if there is a concrete parking stop or whatever IN FRONT OF YOU

Mine remains the same too.

The LR can pull that trick because its cameras are MUCH LOWER TO THE GROUND AND ON THE FRONT BUMPER.

I even posted pictures when I had to explain this in a previous thread if you're having trouble visualizing why this might matter and care to look.

 

[MrMannnilow]

if you're having trouble visualizing why this might matter and care to look

I'm good. I'm still sure the car can see a few feet in front of it and could see a parking block pulling forward without issue once it goes out of your line of sight

 

[Knightshade]

I'm good. I'm still sure the car can see a few feet in front of it and could see a parking block pulling forward without issue once it goes out of your line of sight

Not if it never saw it to begin with.

Which it wouldn't on a tighter turn.

Ironically, here's a different pic from Land Rover (illustrating a different feature) that proves this point-

See that big chunk below the drivers line of vision labeled "clearsight ground view"? The front camera in a Tesla can't see that.


Now here's a video of what the front camera DOES see in a Tesla (similar to the "conventional field of vision" in the LR pic)-

Go to about 12 seconds in, the car comes to an intersection and executes a right turn.

As you can tell by only "seeing" what that front camera can see-by the time it's far enough into the turn to see "straight" on the new lane, it's missed almost an entire car-length of road that was never visible to the front camera

It can't tell you "what was just there" because the camera never saw it

This, again, is why Land Rover (and everyone else that does any sort of "low around the car" front parking view) mounts the camera low on the front bumper, instead of the top of the windshield, to provide the kind of view you want.

 

[drtimhill]

"Tesla owners may soon have the benefit of using the side cameras of their vehicles when backing up. Elon Musk confirmed that such functionality can be added in future updates after a brief exchange with a Tesla owner on Twitter."
Tesla to utilize side cameras to help drivers back up, confirms Elon Musk

I am very excited for this. It seems like one of those obvious features we should have gotten a long time ago.

You can do it now. You backup normally, during which you may hear a grinding sound while you scrape the side of the car along something. Then you go into park and review the DashCam footage using the new on-screen viewer. Problem solved!!

 

[Mardak]

I'm still sure the car can see a few feet in front of it and could see a parking block pulling forward without issue once it goes out of your line of sight

Here's an example from one of green's videos. When the car is parked, it indeed cannot see the dividing line close to where a parking block would be:

But you're right that as the car is pulling into the spot, the main front camera would have been able to see the dividing line and parking block:

And even before turning into the spot, the wide fisheye camera and side pillar camera would be able to see the parking block even when the front main camera is pointing the wrong way:

 

[Watts_Up]

Go to about 12 seconds in, the car comes to an intersection and executes a right turn.

As you can tell by only "seeing" what that front camera can see-by the time it's far enough into the turn to see "straight" on the new lane,
it's missed almost an entire car-length of road that was never visible to the front camera

It can't tell you "what was just there" because the camera never saw it

This, again, is why Land Rover (and everyone else that does any sort of "low around the car" front parking view)
mounts the camera low on the front bumper, instead of the top of the windshield, to provide the kind of view you want.

I totally agree. The front camera behind the windshield is not sufficient for FSD in city driving.

You need to have cameras at each corner of the car and looking on each side of the car.

Otherwise the car cannot see any traffic coming from the adjacent streets.

I have this problem when I try to exit from my driveway and turn right into the street.

Note: To solve this issue, I recently installed a camera under my front license plate to see the cars, and bicycles, coming from my left.

 

[ramonneke]

The B-pillar has forward facing cameras, the blinkers rear facing cameras and the windshield has 3 different cameras. All camera's have overlapping vision. Definitely enough for FSD.

You as a driver are sitting 0.5 meter if not more behind those cameras and you do not have *any* issue with adjacent streets do you?

That can *only* be a problem if your speed is too high and even if you have a camera mounted all the way in the bumper your speed likely still too high.


So the camera placement is sufficient for most FSD tasks except parking in tight spots. Tesla's fail big time as the vision would not be able to provide enough info due to the large blind areas near to the car.

 

[ramonneke]

I'm looking forward to this feature as just having additional backup cameras for the sides would be very welcome.

 

[gavine]

Hello my fellow m3 owners. My 1st ever post here. I have owned my 2020 model 3 stealth since Nov 2019 and loving every day of it. Since we are in the topic of reverse cameras, I wish we had an option of leaving the reverse cam on along with navy screen. For now, it's either back cam or nav screen. Just a thought.

What you're looking for is available on the Model S & X, but not the 3 or Y.

 

[MXLRplus]

Is this why Teslas don't have pedestrian warnings and cross traffic alerts?
When you observe the Tesla advertising, it claims to have sensors up the wazoo and pedestrian alert.
If you've never driven a car with it, you not going to understand what it does.

Read Tesla's 2020 brochure: Autopilot

I honestly expected it to be on par with the less expensive Bolt, eTron, and I-Pace, so I admit I did not fully evaluated it prior to acquisition. Not a deal breaker but very odd. When your Tesla is the least sophisticated car you own, you know you're living good.

 

[MrMannnilow]

But you're right that as the car is pulling into the spot, the main front camera would have been able to see the dividing line and parking block:

I know I'm right. I'm done arguing what exact scenario I've explained multiple times.

Thank you for the pictures and time you took to reply and validate my point

 

[Knightshade]

Is this why Teslas don't have pedestrian warnings and cross traffic alerts?
When you observe the Tesla advertising, it claims to have sensors up the wazoo and pedestrian alert.
If you've never driven a car with it, you not going to understand what it does.

Lack of rear radar is probably the biggest missing sensor (and what most others use to provide rear cross traffic alert)


Teslas answer to this (and, technically correct from a safety point of view) is that people should be backing into spots, such that they're pulling out forward.

It is factually safer to do even without any driver aids, and in a Tesla provides both the front radar and numerous front-facing cameras to handle cross traffic issues.

Indeed- if you use auto-park, that's how the car pulls into perpendicular parking spots...backward.

The B-pillar has forward facing cameras, the blinkers rear facing cameras and the windshield has 3 different cameras. All camera's have overlapping vision. Definitely enough for FSD.

You as a driver are sitting 0.5 meter if not more behind those cameras and you do not have *any* issue with adjacent streets do you?

That can *only* be a problem if your speed is too high and even if you have a camera mounted all the way in the bumper your speed likely still too high.


So the camera placement is sufficient for most FSD tasks except parking in tight spots. Tesla's fail big time as the vision would not be able to provide enough info due to the large blind areas near to the car.

Yup.

It can see traffic to the sides just fine, since other cars, even really close ones, are more than a few inches off the ground.

 

[Knightshade]

But you're right that as the car is pulling into the spot, the main front camera would have been able to see the dividing line and parking block:
View attachment 534698

And even before turning into the spot, the wide fisheye camera and side pillar camera would be able to see the parking block even when the front main camera is pointing the wrong way:
View attachment 534699

Currently the car does not create whole-world views using all the cameras though- so it still can't do what's being asked for.

(this is also why you sometimes see multiple trucks or jumping ones on the visualization when there's only 1 truck- 1 camera sees a truck, another sees part of what it thinks is a DIFFERENT truck, a third camera maybe sees yet a different part...


Allegedly the big AP core re-write is going to change this (requiring HW3 as 2.x lacks the power to handle all 8 cameras at full speed in real time) to actually create a "real" 360 understanding of the surroundings using all the cameras- depending how well that works what's being discussed might be possible- but TODAY? nope.

 

[MXLRplus]

...

Teslas answer to this (and, technically correct from a safety point of view) is that people should be backing into spots, such that they're pulling out forward.

It is factually safer to do even without any driver aids, and in a Tesla provides both the front radar and numerous front-facing cameras to handle cross traffic issues.

Indeed- if you use auto-park, that's how the car pulls into perpendicular parking spots...backward.

Backing in would be acceptable for many people who use sedans.
But for a car with a big hatchback cargo area and a trailer hitch, that is truly puzzling.
BTW - Cars with frontal radar also have cross traffic alert pointed forward. The car can see around parked cars better than the driver can. The lack of pedestrian alert in either direction is baffling. It's going to become Euro req IIRC.

I can foresee Tesla making a major upgrade or discontinuation of the M S/X lineup. As more people change over from 2016+ luxury cars into Teslas, they will all be going, "WTF is this? 2015?" Even 2020 pickup trucks have better digital driver's aids now.

I love EVs and refuse to settle for less than an EV powertrain, but Elon needs to go drive the other 2020 EVs. Even Hyundai is far ahead in the Driver's Aid department (HUD/360/crosstraffic/ped), and Audi/Porsche/Jaguar EVs slaughter it.

So why the Tesla for me? Largest towing capacity, largest cargo area, largest range. I was actually shopping for 2020 pickup for work and opted for an EV instead.

 

[Knightshade]

Backing in would be acceptable for many people who use sedans.
But for a car with a big hatchback cargo area and a trailer hitch, that is truly puzzling.

Why?

If you don't have a trailer- there's no difference.

If you DO have one you'll need a 2-length spot that you pull through so you're STILL facing front-out when leaving.

Ba
BTW - Cars with frontal radar also have cross traffic alert pointed forward. The car can see around parked cars better than the driver can. The lack of pedestrian alert in either direction is baffling. It's going to become Euro req IIRC.

Not quite sure what you're saying here?

The car DOES have front radar, and DOES stop for pedestrians in front of it...

https://electrek.co/2020/04/21/tesla-videos-autopilot-avoid-pedestrian-crashes/

 

[MXLRplus]

Why?

If you don't have a trailer- there's no difference.

If you DO have one you'll need a 2-length spot that you pull through so you're STILL facing front-out when leaving.




Not quite sure what you're saying here?

The car DOES have front radar, and DOES stop for pedestrians in front of it...

https://electrek.co/2020/04/21/tesla-videos-autopilot-avoid-pedestrian-crashes/

When you pull in forward to a stall, you can load heavy objects from rear like trucks and SUVs can. You seem to be thinking loading docks. You can't load a Tesla with a forklift, which is a drawback not a feature. Yes, a 200lb part is better handled with tools than muscle.

If my 2020 MX 2012.12.5 has front pedestrian alert, it hides it well. My other cars give warnings the Tesla does not. I know for a FACT one of my cars will slam the brakes to floor to stop from hitting a pedestrian. But they all give warnings of potential threats.

Please don't quote Electrek. It's worse than quoting a TV commercial. I have physically been in a car that nailed the brakes for a pedestrian. Seatbelt bruising style stop.

 

[MXLRplus]

I am now so far off topic, that I must apologize to the other readers. Sorry, and I will drop assessments for commercial usage.