Teslascope.. (alternative to TeslaFi)

[Lostb0y]

I signed up last night and purchased the premium because the UI is so much better than TeslaFi. The Trip Reports don't work at all. I have driven over 40 miles and 4 different stops and it shows 1 stop and 5.66 miles. Not sure that feature is working.

 

[DucaTinus]

Got an email from the developer.
Problems can be caused by teslafi. Have to set-up the tasker method to let it record the whole drive.
First have to buy 2 taskers for Ios and android (wifes phone and me ) and then do setups. Verry complicated.
Strange that teslascope does not miss 100 meters but 10 km's every drive. Car schould be awake and sleep settings are standard

I love the GUI but also missing features like teslafi (costs, drives etc) so i am deleting my teslascope account. Maybe in the future i come back.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I’m about as worried as I am about iCloud google my phone company and everyone else who logs my location constantly.

That tiny company called google is much more secure than this third party company.
The other small company called Tesla is quite a bit more secure than this third party company also.

I'm just not going to put an investment like a Tesla into the hands of a few people that can pop open my trunk ( and frunk ) - and possibly know when I'm not at my most expensive investment - MY HOUSE.

This would be a hackers dream....as I was one of them at one point. I just hacked....I didn't do anything criminal or anything.

Also...hackers aren't the people who break into anything. The thieves are people who buy access/data from hackers.

 

[Ejl80]

That tiny company called google is much more secure than this third party company.
The other small company called Tesla is quite a bit more secure than this third party company also.

I'm just not going to put an investment like a Tesla into the hands of a few people that can pop open my trunk ( and frunk ) - and possibly know when I'm not at my most expensive investment - MY HOUSE.

This would be a hackers dream....as I was one of them at one point. I just hacked....I didn't do anything criminal or anything.

Also...hackers aren't the people who break into anything. The thieves are people who buy access/data from hackers.

I’ve read a lot of your posts. I find it very hard to believe you are/were a hacker. And the size of an organization isn’t equivalent to their security talents, as I’m sure an experienced hacker such as yourself would know.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I’ve read a lot of your posts. I find it very hard to believe you are/were a hacker. And the size of an organization isn’t equivalent to their security talents, as I’m sure an experienced hacker such as yourself would know.

Yep, I wasn't a nefarious hacker. I was just a hacker to see if I could break in to stuff and reverse engineer it. Just like I'm doing with the Model 3. I'm constantly collecting can bus messages and deciphering what the data means. I call that a hacker....or maybe I'm just an engineer. Its a fine line. You decide.

Anywhoo… I've been asked by folks to do things to the model 3 that weren't for a good purpose at all. There is just no way I would do such things even though their price offerings were substantial ( in my book ).
As a matter of fact.....I just figured out the addressing and data patterns for rolling each window up and down by camping on the CAM bus and extracting out the data. That was exciting. Its not difficult. It just takes time.

Needless to say that I wouldn't dare allow a 3rd party outfit such as this one access to my car's actual data. They don't appear to have access to the CAN bus of the Model 3, but who knows what the future holds.

For what it's worth....PLEASE DON'T install any 3rd party hardware anywhere in your car unless you know EVERYTHING about it.

I would explain how my simple setup works, however I don't want to give any nefariously anxious newbies any ideas about where to start. LOL.

Lastly...I have yet to find a small data collecting company that has the talents to take care of Data/Website/Revenue/Security/Engineering and development with a handful of people. It just doesn't happen. Good talent ( and I mean GOOD talent that keeps up with the latest in each aspect across the board ) costs good money these days.

 

[tylercorsair]

@Garlan Garner Your concerns are valid, but you also show that you have a great misunderstanding in regard to the Tesla APIs. Any third party service uses the same endpoints as the official Tesla mobile app and is given no special access beyond that. As all requests are handled by Tesla's servers, there is zero interaction with the actual vehicle.

Tesla acts as the middleman, ensuring that the only data that is returned from the APIs was presented by the vehicle and thus there is no possibility of data from the BUS being able to be accessed in any manner. This is standard for practically any service on the internet that provides data via APIs. There is never direct access given as that would, of course, bring up security concerns.

Secondly, there is nothing installed. Teslascope is solely a web-based platform. While it is possible to make modifications to the vehicle's underlying OS itself via hardware modifications (and so forth) as you've discussed, this is not something a majority of vehicle owners participate in as it can also cause concerns over the vehicle warranty if something goes wrong.

Finally, security is very important to me and was a major focus of the platform from the very beginning. Every aspect in regard to access is locked down, every account associated with the platform's infrastructure has 2FA and proper access+logging, and Teslascope is the only Tesla-related service or application with 2FA offered for free, to everyone. Security and privacy are fundamentals and whether you're a small startup or a massive corporation; you can still do your due diligence to ensure everyone has a safe experience!

Got an email from the developer.
Problems can be caused by teslafi. Have to set-up the tasker method to let it record the whole drive.
First have to buy 2 taskers for Ios and android (wifes phone and me ) and then do setups. Verry complicated.
Strange that teslascope does not miss 100 meters but 10 km's every drive. Car schould be awake and sleep settings are standard

I love the GUI but also missing features like teslafi (costs, drives etc) so i am deleting my teslascope account. Maybe in the future i come back.

Both programs (Tasker for Android and Siri Shortcuts for iOS) are free; Siri Shortcuts being officially made by Apple. Hoping in the near future to be able to provide a better experience for recording drives if multiple third party services are used. This is the reason why TeslaFi also mentions avoiding using other services, as the two can cause conflicts that are hard to resolve from a programming standpoint (conflicting polling times).

There will be some big updates towards the end of this month pertaining to charging costs and so forth, so hope to see you back on the platform sometime in the future!

I signed up last night and purchased the premium because the UI is so much better than TeslaFi. The Trip Reports don't work at all. I have driven over 40 miles and 4 different stops and it shows 1 stop and 5.66 miles. Not sure that feature is working.

Sorry for any trouble you've experienced so far with this. If you haven't already, please feel free to reach out via email and will get you a discount for the hassles. Still a bit to hammer out with data logging and improvements are on the way!

 

[Garlan Garner]

@Garlan Garner Your concerns are valid, but you also show that you have a great misunderstanding in regard to the Tesla APIs. Any third party service uses the same endpoints as the official Tesla mobile app and is given no special access beyond that. As all requests are handled by Tesla's servers, there is zero interaction with the actual vehicle.

Tesla acts as the middleman, ensuring that the only data that is returned from the APIs was presented by the vehicle and thus there is no possibility of data from the BUS being able to be accessed in any manner. This is standard for practically any service on the internet that provides data via APIs. There is never direct access given as that would, of course, bring up security concerns.

Secondly, there is nothing installed. Teslascope is solely a web-based platform. While it is possible to make modifications to the vehicle's underlying OS itself via hardware modifications (and so forth) as you've discussed, this is not something a majority of vehicle owners participate in as it can also cause concerns over the vehicle warranty if something goes wrong.

Finally, security is very important to me and was a major focus of the platform from the very beginning. Every aspect in regard to access is locked down, every account associated with the platform's infrastructure has 2FA and proper access+logging, and Teslascope is the only Tesla-related service or application with 2FA offered for free, to everyone. Security and privacy are fundamentals and whether you're a small startup or a massive corporation; you can still do your due diligence to ensure everyone has a safe experience!



Both programs (Tasker for Android and Siri Shortcuts for iOS) are free; Siri Shortcuts being officially made by Apple. Hoping in the near future to be able to provide a better experience for recording drives if multiple third party services are used. This is the reason why TeslaFi also mentions avoiding using other services, as the two can cause conflicts that are hard to resolve from a programming standpoint (conflicting polling times).

There will be some big updates towards the end of this month pertaining to charging costs and so forth, so hope to see you back on the platform sometime in the future!



Sorry for any trouble you've experienced so far with this. If you haven't already, please feel free to reach out via email and will get you a discount for the hassles. Still a bit to hammer out with data logging and improvements are on the way!

You are mentioning how its "supposed" to work.

The hackers world is birthed "outside of how its supposed to work".

 

[tylercorsair]

You are mentioning how its "supposed" to work.

The hackers world is birthed "outside of how its supposed to work".

As someone who has attended a few hacking/infosec conventions, I get that understanding!

Tesla has a pretty lovely bug bounty program, so I'm usually pretty confident in their ability to keep vehicles and their owners safe. From a software standpoint, there's no risk of a vehicle being compromised through any third party services whether it's TeslaFi, Teslascope, or another as no attack vectors exist for such. Of the few POST requests, they still have to go through Tesla's "mothership" endpoint, which validates and sanitizes all data before it ever reaches the vehicle.

 

[Garlan Garner]

As someone who has attended a few hacking/infosec conventions, I get that understanding!

Tesla has a pretty lovely bug bounty program, so I'm usually pretty confident in their ability to keep vehicles and their owners safe. From a software standpoint, there's no risk of a vehicle being compromised through any third party services whether it's TeslaFi, Teslascope, or another as no attack vectors exist for such. Of the few POST requests, they still have to go through Tesla's "mothership" endpoint, which validates and sanitizes all data before it ever reaches the vehicle.

We would hope so....

However....its important to note that " Tesla didn't officially post the results of their hacking challenge. " Unofficially we know who the successful people were...from the first hacker......to the last.

Sure Tesla is tremendously more secure after this effort, because......they acquired some new employees... Wink Wink.

Did Teslascope get new employees to prevent their info ( your info ) from being hacked? Again....if I hacked Teslascope….and was successful...then I won't have to hack Tesla. Teslascope would be a wonderful jumpoint for your Tesla information.

#1 rule of hacking. Get the most crucial info the easiest way possible.

TMC isn't the place to divulge any hind of hacking techniques...so lets stop here.

 

[patrikr]

I signed up for a free trial but there were a few things and agree with previous posters that the UI is far better with than TeslaFi. However, there are a few minor things that could be improved IMHO:

- The drives are always named "Untitled Drive" and there's no way to tag a location
- It always seem to miss the first 1-2 miles of every drive

With that I've decided to use something else but think it could be a great app with a few minor improvements. What I can't find is a way to completely delete all my information. Anyone know how to do that?

 

[tylercorsair]

I signed up for a free trial but there were a few things and agree with previous posters that the UI is far better with than TeslaFi. However, there are a few minor things that could be improved IMHO:

- The drives are always named "Untitled Drive" and there's no way to tag a location
- It always seem to miss the first 1-2 miles of every drive

With that I've decided to use something else but think it could be a great app with a few minor improvements. What I can't find is a way to completely delete all my information. Anyone know how to do that?

The ability to add locations should hopefully be complete and added in the following month.

You can deactivate your account via Account Settings; once deactivated the account and all data is automatically deleted after 30 days. If you'd like it deleted immediately, deactivate it and then send an email to [email protected].

 

[Gardyloo]

There is a lot of privacy insecurity out there, and I get that.

However, as a scientist I am a big believer in evidence. So far, I have only fears that this or that might happen, but nothing about anything that has actually happened. The NYT series on being tracked by your phone covered what might happen extensively but, as far as I can tell, not a word about anyone being harmed by having their phones followed. I could be wrong, because I don't spend a lot of time looking for it, but I suspect the reason the NYT and this thread doesn't talk about actual harm is that there has been none. If there are well documented cases, I would hope someone would post about those. Until it is an actual problem, I will not worry about Teslafi or Teslascope or any of the others.

This is my view and my approach. Others will make their own decisions.

 

[Zsik3115]

Awesome service

 

[tylercorsair]

Awesome service

Thank you!

 

[ahagge]

I just signed up for Teslascope and am very impressed with its features and functionality - good job! Also, it's good to know that you're paying so much attention to security.

I haven't had a chance to go for a drive since signing up, but a couple of things that the developers might find useful:

• In these days of Coronavirus, it might be enlightening to see how much driving has fallen off from pre-Coronavirus levels. Would it be possible to allow the user to modify the X-axis on the Driving Statistics -> Recent Activity graph, even if it's just to select from a menu of options (last week, this month, last 30 days, last 3 months, etc.)?
• Not sure if it's a bug or perhaps the Tesla API is incorrect, but my Model 3 is showing on Teslascope as having hardware 2.5, but we had it upgraded to hardware 3.0 a little over a month go. I was able to adjust it in the Debug settings, but if it's being populated programmatically, it's apparently doing so incorrectly.

Great work, looking forward to exploring the data once these "Stay at Home" orders are lifted and I can actually drive again...

 

[LisaW]

People need to stop watching Gone in 60 Seconds. Or buy and aluminum foil car cover to go with your aluminum foil hat. Seriously, who are you that you are in fear of being tracked? Plus remind me again of how many Tesla’s have been stolen and not recovered? Besides I don’t think there is a rash of car thieves hacking the planet trying to find their next score.

So scoldy!

 

[Kilotango74]

So scoldy!

So last year.

 

[tylercorsair]

I just signed up for Teslascope and am very impressed with its features and functionality - good job! Also, it's good to know that you're paying so much attention to security.

I haven't had a chance to go for a drive since signing up, but a couple of things that the developers might find useful:

• In these days of Coronavirus, it might be enlightening to see how much driving has fallen off from pre-Coronavirus levels. Would it be possible to allow the user to modify the X-axis on the Driving Statistics -> Recent Activity graph, even if it's just to select from a menu of options (last week, this month, last 30 days, last 3 months, etc.)?
• Not sure if it's a bug or perhaps the Tesla API is incorrect, but my Model 3 is showing on Teslascope as having hardware 2.5, but we had it upgraded to hardware 3.0 a little over a month go. I was able to adjust it in the Debug settings, but if it's being populated programmatically, it's apparently doing so incorrectly.

Great work, looking forward to exploring the data once these "Stay at Home" orders are lifted and I can actually drive again...

Thank you for this great feedback!

I actually soft released a small page that shows the impacts of COVID on driving habits. You can view it here:
COVID-19 | Teslascope

The Tesla API, unfortunately, does not accurately let services know anymore whether or not the HW is 2.5 or 3, so we just use a handful of conditionals to try to guess, one being VIN (year) and models (Model Y always will have HW3). In most cases though, we just default to 2.5 to be safe with the option to manually override it as you did!

--

I'm also pleased to share that TeslaFi importing was implemented recently. I have been working on it over the course of the last three months to ensure it was as efficient and easy to use as possible. An entire month is processed and imported in less than five seconds, and we provide a beautiful interface for comparing metrics. You can also delete all sessions related to an import with one button click!

Cheers!

 

[Hawkhandler]

@tylercorsair apologies if this has already been covered but how do you define "drive efficiency"?

 

[tylercorsair]

@tylercorsair apologies if this has already been covered but how do you define "drive efficiency"?

Drive Efficiency is determined by the following formula: ($distance / $rangeUsed) * 100
We take the true distance, determined by the change in the odometer from start to finish, and divide that by the range that the vehicle reported as using. If you actually drove 25 miles, but your car reported you used 30 miles of range, then that would mean you drove 83% efficiently. 100% would mean you drove the same distance as the range used, meanwhile anything above that would mean your vehicle used less range than actual distance (downhill, optimal scenarios, etc).

As a general principle, we try to not provide any metrics that could be inaccurately calculated, such as wh/mi since Tesla does not provide this information. I've been informed by a handful of Tesla employees that the methods that other services use can be misleading or wildly inaccurate to what is displayed in the car, so this is why I've gone with that route.

As soon as Tesla provides an accurate way of viewing the "true" range of the vehicle (as reported from the CANBUS) so that battery degradation can be accurately determined, providing wh/mi or similar metrics isn't recommended.