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Test drove the Model Y, Model 3 and the Mach E back to back to back, yesterday

Tslgrl

Member
Mar 13, 2021
34
57
Ontario
I stopped into see the Ford Mustang Mach E and here they only had the lowest range version. The 300mile range version is what Ford sells as the California 1 Trim and the salesman said it isn't available outside California. Seems dumb decision to me if true. All the Mustang models have lower range rating with similar batteries due to lower efficiency compared to the Tesla. For example if your 98KWH battery is correct, it would compare to my Model S 100KW battery which is rated for 402 miles at 100 KWH.

As far as the debate on real world numbers, that is unscientific comparison since the testing has no standards of measurement. A guy like Kyle Conner of Out of Spec Motoring never gets rated miles range because he has a lead foot and travels mostly at 85 to 90 mph with a roof rack on his performance M3 and non standard tires. By comparison, I drive for range at posted speed limits and keep the tires pumped to pressure and watch my energy meter so I do better than EPA. Once I achieved 430 miles range last summer. But choosing to do a battery full with speed it only got 340 miles range. So real world is not representative and can be anything the writer wants to make it.

I think the Mach E is prettier than the Tesla MY but that is just opinion. I also prefer the better engineering and efficiency of the Tesla over the Mustang Mach E.
There are California Route 1's in Ontario, Canada!
 

pt19713

Member
Feb 5, 2020
989
1,275
Delaware
For us, I guess it has more to do with the shape of the space. Not very roomy from floor to the inside of the hatch.
One thing to keep in mind with the Y is the angle/shape of the rear hatch glass, which is an aggressive slope. It does cut a little into the vertical space in the hatch. Luckily it's deeper than most of cars in the segment. You might be able to ask them for an overnight test drive so you can do a test fit for the wheelchair. I think you mentioned that it would definitely fit if folded down (in the 3), which it would in the Y. You might want to test it fully assembled in the Y due to the shape of the rear hatch. I've attached a photo to sort of explain it with an image. I have a dog crate that I have to push further back (closer to the rear seat) in Y but in the SQ5, it doesn't have to get pushed as far back since there's more vertical space.
 

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Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
259
290
916
One more thing speaking of real world road trips with the Tesla vs any of the similar non-Tesla EV's. That is the charging network. Tesla is extremely reliable and simple to use. No apps, no credit cards just plug in and go. The CCS network is either much slower or doesn't work at all. Maybe next year they will get their act together but for now I wouldn't want to take any CCS car on a road trip. I simply don't need the frustration I see all the non-Tesla car owners suffering with the CCS charging network.

Agree with a good deal of what you’ve written with the exception of CCS, at least where I am. We just picked up an Audi eTron sportback (love the car) and took it to an EA CCS charger. Went from 50% to 95% charge in 15 minutes. Couldn’t believe it.

Anyway, i too like the MME looks better that the MY or MX, as well as the interior. I like the Tesla skateboard better (Not the suspension). I really like the looks of the Audi (inside and out) better but 220mi range is tough.

All said, EV offerings are getting better - the competition will force them all to do better. Good for all of us.
 
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jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
763
567
Charleston
It seems that while the Tesla has better EPA estimated range the real-world reviews are showing that the Mach-E has much better range than the Teslas.
The Alex on Autos comparison test showed this pretty well and was one of the more fair direct comparisons and I don't even think that was the rt 1. I think the rt 1 will do even a bit better?

Although the supercharger network still seems to be more reliable than EA & the others.
 

alexgr

Member
Aug 13, 2019
895
803
42
Tesla did the same initially while they gather data. Nothing wrong with being conservative initially with their charging curves. I'm sure they'll get an OTA in the future when the engineers feel more confident in the battery pack.
Can you please provide a reference that Tesla did the same. Would be interesting to see how the development was going by Tesla. Regarding, Ford, they are NOT a software-oriented company and each and every sw update (and OTA update if they dare to try) should not be expected to come out at the pace of Microsoft or Tesla. Tesla is a lot more frugal than Ford, and Ford may go completely broken before they learn how to make EVs.
 

TravelFree

Member
Mar 23, 2020
799
709
Jacksonville, Florida
Agree with a good deal of what you’ve written with the exception of CCS, at least where I am. We just picked up an Audi eTron sportback (love the car) and took it to an EA CCS charger. Went from 50% to 95% charge in 15 minutes. Couldn’t believe it.
That's fast alright. I'm not sure what the etron battery is like. Have to look that up. You didn't say where you charged EA at. Around here, Jacksonville,, they are not very reliable and several of the road trip videos confirm reliability is poor compared to Tesla.

Good luck with your Audi. I owned an Audi years ago and it wasn't worth the premium we paid over a VW but to each his own. I'm sure they got better since.
 

pt19713

Member
Feb 5, 2020
989
1,275
Delaware
Can you please provide a reference that Tesla did the same. Would be interesting to see how the development was going by Tesla. Regarding, Ford, they are NOT a software-oriented company and each and every sw update (and OTA update if they dare to try) should not be expected to come out at the pace of Microsoft or Tesla. Tesla is a lot more frugal than Ford, and Ford may go completely broken before they learn how to make EVs.

I've also seen comments from the S/X owners on these forums. I'm sure there are more small improvements over the years but most news articles are recent.
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
3,274
3,261
Maryland
This recent range/efficiency test of a Tesla Long Range Model Y and the Ford Mustang Extended Ranger AWD Mach-E:
Ford Vs Tesla: Crossover Range War

In this test the Long Range Model Y traveled approximately 230ish miles on a full charge; The Mustang Mach-E traveled 260ish miles on a full charge. The Extended Range Mustang Mach-E 's battery pack has a usable capacity of 88kWh; the Tesla Model Y just 75kWh (15% less than the Extended Range Mach-E.) Not that it would made much difference but the wheels, tires and tire pressure of the Model Y were not noted. The tester did not note if the Tesla Model Y's battery pack was preconditioned before starting the test.

In 2020 a Tesla Long Range Model Y 70 MPH highway range test in warmer weather was perfomed, on the East Coast with fewer elevation changes. The 2020 Tesla Long Range Model Y with the 20" Induction wheels was able to travel slightly more than 280 miles.

It would be interesting to rerun the West Coast range test once the weather warms another 20F.
 

pt19713

Member
Feb 5, 2020
989
1,275
Delaware
This recent range/efficiency test of a Tesla Long Range Model Y and the Ford Mustang Extended Ranger AWD Mach-E:
Ford Vs Tesla: Crossover Range War

In this test the Long Range Model Y traveled approximately 230ish miles on a full charge; The Mustang Mach-E traveled 260ish miles on a full charge. The Extended Range Mustang Mach-E 's battery pack has a usable capacity of 88kWh; the Tesla Model Y just 75kWh (15% less than the Extended Range Mach-E.) Not that it would made much difference but the wheels, tires and tire pressure of the Model Y were not noted. The tester did not note if the Tesla Model Y's battery pack was preconditioned before starting the test.

In 2020 a Tesla Long Range Model Y 70 MPH highway range test in warmer weather was perfomed, on the East Coast with fewer elevation changes. The 2020 Tesla Long Range Model Y with the 20" Induction wheels was able to travel slightly more than 280 miles.

It would be interesting to rerun the West Coast range test once the weather warms another 20F.
I can't remember where I posted here on this forum, but something is wrong with the Y's numbers. At the halfway mark, Alex reported the Y had 260 wh/mi efficiency. He didn't report what it was at the end, but on the Mach-E forum they stated the MME had something like 327 wh/mi. The Y is about 15% more efficient, so that'd put the Y at 284 wh/mi. 75 kWh divided by 284 wh/mi = 264 miles of range. Since there's an energy buffer, when the UI is at 0%, that would be around 71.6 kWh, so 71.6 kWh divided by 284 wh/mi = 252 miles.


I don't know why Alex didn't do this type of calculation rather than using the method he did. Either way, something is off. I'm just surprised the Y did that poorly in those temps and speeds. My drives in the same conditions yield 240 wh/mi at 65 mph, 260 wh/mi at 75 mph in 60-80F temps and that's with 1 additional passenger and 60 lbs of stuff in the hatch.
 
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Hexo09

Member
Mar 8, 2021
91
88
Bay Area, CA
I am surprised as well and his math doesn't make much sense, but the proof is kind of in the pudding here, it's hard to do a more straight forward comp between the two. My "real life" range is also much better than that, I am around 250-260wh/mile, but it doesn't matter much. Most people don't actually need much more than 200 miles of range anyway, and don't realize that in the end, the efficiency is what will affect their wallet.

That being said, I do think that Tesla needs to be better about marketing their ranges, advertising 326 miles for the LR Y is close to false advertising. It's all about expectations, and I'm not sure the sales would be worse if they only advertised 290 miles.
 
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bobby g

Member
Mar 13, 2020
315
177
The Inland Empire :)
For us, I guess it has more to do with the shape of the space. Not very roomy from floor to the inside of the hatch.
I'd say yours was real. Many people have family specific items to transport. How much more of hassle in your complicated life is pulling off the wheels? Like in the rain?

Can't fully agree with your ranking it #1 for looks, front is fugley and the back is bumley (yes I make up words, but some will get it)

Great comparison with attention to all that mattered.
 
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rodhx

Member
Mar 8, 2021
8
6
Birmingham, AL
In the MME the California Route 1 is simply the lowest priced rwd extended battery package. It has the same range & performance as the Premium rwd extended battery but less equipment. CA Route 1 has one great failing in my mind...no seat heaters either standard or optional. It is NOT limited to the state of California.
 

psuKinger

Member
Jul 3, 2020
105
102
Pennsylvania
It seems that while the Tesla has better EPA estimated range the real-world reviews are showing that the Mach-E has much better range than the Teslas.

FWIW:
I'm over 10,000 miles on my (LR AWD) Model Y.
I live in (4-seasons and hilly appalachia) Pennsylvania.
I took possession in July, and have put those 10,000 miles on, probably disproportionaly more over the Winter then the stay-at-home Summer 2020 (pandemic) we had.

My lifetime wh/mile has slowly inched up from about 244 wh/mile while the weather was nice to 254 wh/mile lifetime average (warm weather summer/fall and cold weather winter combined).

As the weather has turned warmer over the last few weeks I am seeing a return to 240-245ish wh/mile averages on my daily commute again, and have no reason to think that won't last until next October/November again.

Just some simple math, if 72.5 of my 75 kWhr of battery are "available to me" for charging/range usage (pretty standard assumption for early life, that works out to 297 miles of range when the weather was nice, and more like 278 miles while it's been cold, and a lifetime average of the two of 285 miles combined under all conditions.

That's "real world" for 10,000 miles, in a 4-season climate environment that's probably heavily weighted right now towards cold-weather driving, in hilly Appalachia.... "FYI". That's better than EPA range of the Mach-E (despite the bigger battery pack), and I'd be shocked to hear that real-world performance is *better* than the EPA rating....
 

Apprunner

Member
Jul 2, 2019
537
608
So-cal
I am surprised as well and his math doesn't make much sense, but the proof is kind of in the pudding here, it's hard to do a more straight forward comp between the two. My "real life" range is also much better than that, I am around 250-260wh/mile, but it doesn't matter much. Most people don't actually need much more than 200 miles of range anyway, and don't realize that in the end, the efficiency is what will affect their wallet.

That being said, I do think that Tesla needs to be better about marketing their ranges, advertising 326 miles for the LR Y is close to false advertising. It's all about expectations, and I'm not sure the sales would be worse if they only advertised 290 miles.
The trouble with these range tests on YouTube is that the EPA numbers have a different ratio of highway miles vs city miles. Highway miles are way less efficient than driving 35 miles down a city street so, coupled with the aggressive regen on the y, it could reach 325 miles if conditions were perfect (highly unlikely).

EPA definitely needs to establish a different way of testing and measuring efficiency though. They should provide highway Wh/mile, city Wh/mile, and highway range and city range. This one size fits all EPA range thing is very confusing to an average customer.
 

tccartier

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Oct 27, 2015
979
995
AZ.
I think people are short-charging a Tesla when they compare it to another EV. Not only it’s a superior electric vehicle, it’s a computer on wheel. You can control much of Tesla’s operation by voice, and it’s fully equipped for self-driving.
I have had mine for over 4 months, and I am still learning what this computer can do!

😂 I'm nearly 4 years in and still learning what my Model S can do including things that it does now that it couldn't do when I got it.
 

Btreth

Member
Jan 31, 2021
16
17
MARYLAND
@ryanjeffords small note: Ford are not setting up their own charging network, they are instead partnering with Electrify America, like VW and Porsche and probably others (Hyundai/Kia as well? I think?). I don't think any other manufacturer is likely to start up their own charging network anytime soon (although EA was started by VW as I understand it, after their Diesel-gate issues) and they will probably all (except Tesla) converge on using EA, at least for the foreseeable future. Teslas in some ways have the "best of both worlds" as you can DCFC at a Supercharger but also use EA and others, albeit stuck at Level 2 speeds using the J1772 adapter.
Most EA stations have CHAdeMO connectors. Using the Tesla adapter you can charge at up to 50 Kw rate. Still way less than the 250Kw of version 3 superchargers but much higher than level 2.

And EVgo stations are adding Tesla connectors. Some of these will match the Tesla version s Super Chargers.
 

Btreth

Member
Jan 31, 2021
16
17
MARYLAND
I'm not brand loyal, and rarely bad-mouth a manufacturer. However, both my recent Fords ( 2014 CMax, 2018 Fusion Energi (plug-in) were plagued with electrical issues that no one could solve. Both had parasitic drain that couldn't be found. We liked both cars very much, but changing batteries every 18 months to 2 years is ridiculous.

Mach-E???? Nope.
I just replaced, for the first time my 2013 C-Max Energi 12v battery. I have 96,000 miles on my car, over 75,000 of them full EV mode. Never had 12 volt battery problem until I just let it sit for 3 months (bought a new Tesla LRY and with COVID and everything just didn't drive the C-Max). There are many things I like better about the C-Max, the maps, the interior lighting, the auto parking, the kick to open lift gate to name a few. But, I love my Tesla. I considered the Mach-E but what finay did it for me was the Super charging network. Newly retired and I plan to road trip a lot.
 

jsight

Member
Apr 5, 2018
763
567
Charleston
In the MME the California Route 1 is simply the lowest priced rwd extended battery package. It has the same range & performance as the Premium rwd extended battery but less equipment. CA Route 1 has one great failing in my mind...no seat heaters either standard or optional. It is NOT limited to the state of California.
The Rt 1 has smaller wheels with aero covers. It'd be really surprising if that doesn't help with real world range.
 

FatherTo1

Member
Mar 7, 2019
887
877
California
Agree with a good deal of what you’ve written with the exception of CCS, at least where I am. We just picked up an Audi eTron sportback (love the car) and took it to an EA CCS charger. Went from 50% to 95% charge in 15 minutes. Couldn’t believe it.

Anyway, i too like the MME looks better that the MY or MX, as well as the interior. I like the Tesla skateboard better (Not the suspension). I really like the looks of the Audi (inside and out) better but 220mi range is tough.

All said, EV offerings are getting better - the competition will force them all to do better. Good for all of us.
Very impressive to gain 45% charge in 15 minutes, especially when the battery is half full. I mean no disrespect, but that 45% equates to roughly 100 miles, no? According to MotorTrend, the V2/V3 Superchargers can recoup 140 miles (45%) in 12-16 minutes, but that’s starting at a low SoC. Have you observed how fast EA charging is when your eTron is at a low SoC?

9E55B031-B791-4BA3-BD1F-A8F0389F8F2E.png
 
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Doc Brown

Member
Oct 22, 2019
259
290
916
Very impressive to gain 45% charge in 15 minutes, especially when the battery is half full. I mean no disrespect, but that 45% equates to roughly 100 miles, no? According to MotorTrend, the V2/V3 Superchargers can recoup 140 miles (45%) in 12-16 minutes, but that’s starting at a low SoC. Have you observed how fast EA charging is when your eTron is at a low SoC?

View attachment 646125
No. We haven’t run it Below 40%. Absolutely love the car.

From what I’ve read - the Audi can charge at a higher rate across the range of capacity versus Tesla, which has a substantially higher charge rates at lower SoC (but slows near higher SoC). I don’t know if that’s correct.
Frankly - it would not matter for us because the Audi need only get the boss to the office a few days a week (6 miles r/t) and occasional 40 mile r/t to the hospital to deliver babies. A couple other docs have Tesla’s - and love the fit and finish and interior comfort of the boss’s Audi.

EVs are hitting stride writ-large, thanks in large part to Tesla and Elon pushing the envelope.
 

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