Test drove the Model Y, Model 3 and the Mach E back to back to back, yesterday

[mark95476]

Here's an existing thread with 235 on 18" Aeros where @eppyphotog54 provided a recent update:

18" Aero wheels and Model Y load limits

I’d love to see some one fit 225 or 235’s on a LR AWD Model Y and conduct some tests. Those 255’s have to have a considerable negative impact on range especially at freeway speeds. We know the MYP gets back some range when fitted with the OEM 255’s. I have friends that did that.

There are people running 235s with pretty good results. That’s what we’ll be running on ours in the winter.

 

[Klia]

Mach-E is so much cheaper than MY. The battery pack is close 100 kWh, much more than MY too. How does Ford make the pricing so good?

 

[alexgr]

Mach-E is so much cheaper than MY. The battery pack is close 100 kWh, much more than MY too. How does Ford make the pricing so good?

... what? Of course, that is because Elon Musk is a greedy multi-billionaire and Ford is run by philanthropists giving away all their possessions.

 

[jcanoe]

Mach-E is so much cheaper than MY. The battery pack is close 100 kWh, much more than MY too. How does Ford make the pricing so good?

You do realize that Ford has an advantage over Tesla, GM too, from the $7,500 credit that Ford buyers of the Mach-E would be able to take advantage of if they buy the Ford Mach-E.

The Mustang Mach-E needs a larger capacity battery pack due to the extra weight and lower efficiency of the Mach-E versus the Tesla Model Y. Ford can afford to break even on the sales of the Mach-E as Ford makes most of its profit from the 900k F series trucks sold each year.

 

[db93]

Mach-E is so much cheaper than MY. The battery pack is close 100 kWh, much more than MY too. How does Ford make the pricing so good?

When late to the market, losses of revenue on a new model are a given
I imagine Ford EV trucks will even this out eventually

 

[MichaelP90DL]

... what? Of course, that is because Elon Musk is a greedy multi-billionaire and Ford is run by philanthropists giving away all their possessions.

</sarcasm>

 

[alexgr]

</sarcasm>

But what else should we do in response to [a poisonous material placed where it will be eaten by harmful or objectionable animals] by [a person who intentionally antagonizes others online by posting inflammatory ... or other disruptive content ]?

 

[MichaelP90DL]

But what else should we do in response to [a poisonous material placed where it will be eaten by harmful or objectionable animals] by [a person who intentionally antagonizes others online by posting inflammatory ... or other disruptive content ]?

Censored much?

 

[Tslgrl]

Really appreciate this post having done essentially the same thing and test drove the LR Model Y and AWD ER MME within 2 days of each other.

The MME cargo room does seem undoubtedly smaller than the Model Y.

I really liked the driver's cluster on the MME. I suppose I am a bit more of a traditionalist and I don't like to take my eyes off the road if I don't have to.

I don't buy cars to go fast but I do appreciate performance when I need it. Would agree that the Model Y seemed more "lively" but this could be the additional weight of the MME?

I found the MME was a bit sportier to drive to be honest, not in speed but I could throw it into a corner a bit more but I did not drive them on the exact same roads so this is not a true comparison.

Both are really very fun with equally excellent sound systems. Absolutely loved the B&O textile fabric finish on the MME.

I think if you never imagined travelling more than the EPA range, go with the MME. If you like long haul road trips, even only several times a year, the Tesla is still the no brainer.

 

[efisher]

I too loved the idea that the Mustang is back as it was my first car in 1966. I had two more since. So I plan to do a test drive soon.

These things you need to consider that Ford Mustang just can't do and this is what turned me off:

The Tesla infrastructure for charging. Not a problem if you never plan to DC fast charge but those EA CCS chargers has high number of failures and complicated to use with accounts memberships and credit cards. The Tesla, you just pull up and plug in. If you just slow charge at home then this isn't an issue and will cost much less too. In addition to the charging, the Tesla also has more range.

The second benefit of the Tesla over the Ford is the Tesla is developing the Full Self Driving technology and is real close to getting out of beta. It already offers some fantastic benefits over basic Auto Pilot and paying for the option locks it in for free upgrades hardware and software.

What I likes about the Mustang Mach E is the interior being more traditional car like with the style. But the VW ID4 is better, IMO. Unfortunately, no ID4 available around here and none expected until later in the year.

It seems that while the Tesla has better EPA estimated range the real-world reviews are showing that the Mach-E has much better range than the Teslas.

 

[efisher]

I too loved the idea that the Mustang is back as it was my first car in 1966. I had two more since. So I plan to do a test drive soon.

These things you need to consider that Ford Mustang just can't do and this is what turned me off:

The Tesla infrastructure for charging. Not a problem if you never plan to DC fast charge but those EA CCS chargers has high number of failures and complicated to use with accounts memberships and credit cards. The Tesla, you just pull up and plug in. If you just slow charge at home then this isn't an issue and will cost much less too. In addition to the charging, the Tesla also has more range.

The second benefit of the Tesla over the Ford is the Tesla is developing the Full Self Driving technology and is real close to getting out of beta. It already offers some fantastic benefits over basic Auto Pilot and paying for the option locks it in for free upgrades hardware and software.

What I likes about the Mustang Mach E is the interior being more traditional car like with the style. But the VW ID4 is better, IMO. Unfortunately, no ID4 available around here and none expected until later in the year.

I just can't see paying $10k for fsd.

 

[efisher]

Thanks for a good comparison. Even though I don't like the Mach-E at all as it resembles me some Infiniti CUV and I always hated the long hood that obstructs view in all Ford's models, and which stands out really odd on an EV. That said, I thought the Mach-E is an interesting first try by Ford, the only major fault is mediocre "fast" charging with 80% DCFC limit. Unfortunately, they totally screwed up the rollout that includes stop ship orders, returning cars to the factory, draining 12V battery to the death, software glitches, failing electric motors, not closing doors, panel gaps(!), high-pitch sound from the screen, etc. etc. Even if I were in love with the Mach-E, I'd wait until next year at least.

I must say I do appreciate the fact that Ford is trying to intercept problem vehicles during shipment and fix them, rather than delver them to the customer like Tesla does and hope they don't notice.

 

[efisher]

Why in the World would Ford put a long hood on an EV. Would be far better to move the firewall forward and make more room on the inside for passengers and cargo.
My picture in <- Avitar gives a good example of how Tesla had done this to good effect.

Foolish styling trick to make buyers feel that there is a huge powerful V-8 engine up front, when in reality it is just a compact electric motor.

They do offer a much larger frunk with that space.

 

[jcanoe]

It seems that while the Tesla has better EPA estimated range the real-world reviews are showing that the Mach-E has much better range than the Teslas.

Please provide source data when making claims about performance, range, cargo capacity. Otherwise these types of claims may have no basis in fact.

Compare Electric Cars: EV Range, Specs, Pricing & More

The Ford Mach-E Standard Range (SR) has an 75kWh battery (similar to the battery capacity of the Tesla Long Range Model Y's 75kWh battery.)

Ford Mach-E Select SR RWD: 230 miles, Mach-E Select SR AWD: 211 miles
2021 Tesla Long Range Dual Motor Model Y: 326 miles

Mach-E Extended Range (ER) Premium RWD (98kWh battery), Range: 300 miles
Mach-E Extended Range (ER) Premium AWD (98kWh battery), Range: 270 miles
2021 Tesla Long Range Dual Motor Model Y (80kWh battery), Range 303 miles

After accounting for the latest slightly larger capacity 80kWh battery used in the 2021 Performance Model Y the Mach-E Extended Range vehicle requires a battery that is 22% larger capacity than the Tesla's battery, still does not exceed the EPA range of either the Long Range or the Performance Model Y. If there are claims that the Extended Range Mach-E's real world range exceeds that of the Long range Tesla Model Y then tests of both cars should be run under identical conditions.

 

[jcanoe]

They do offer a much larger frunk with that space.

The Ford Mach-E's front storage bin may be larger than the Model Y's frunk bin; the total cargo capacity of the Tesla Model Y is 68 cu ft versus just under 60 cu ft. for the Ford Mach-E. There is approximately 13% more total cargo capacity in the Model Y.

The Ford Mach-E is currently not rated for towing; Every version of the Tesla Model Y can be equipped with a factory tow hitch, rated for towing up to 3500 lbs.

The Ford Mach-E is limited to two rows of seating (5 seats total.) The Tesla Model Y is available, shipping with a 3rd row that seats two passengers (7 seats total.)

 

[TravelFree]

Ford Mach-E Select SR RWD: 230 miles, Mach-E Select SR AWD: 211 miles
2021 Tesla Long Range Dual Motor Model Y: 326 miles

Mach-E Extended Range (ER) Premium RWD (98kWh battery), Range: 300 miles
Mach-E Extended Range (ER) Premium AWD (98kWh battery), Range: 270 miles
2021 Tesla Long Range Dual Motor Model Y (80kWh battery), Range 303 miles

I stopped into see the Ford Mustang Mach E and here they only had the lowest range version. The 300mile range version is what Ford sells as the California 1 Trim and the salesman said it isn't available outside California. Seems dumb decision to me if true. All the Mustang models have lower range rating with similar batteries due to lower efficiency compared to the Tesla. For example if your 98KWH battery is correct, it would compare to my Model S 100KW battery which is rated for 402 miles at 100 KWH.

As far as the debate on real world numbers, that is unscientific comparison since the testing has no standards of measurement. A guy like Kyle Conner of Out of Spec Motoring never gets rated miles range because he has a lead foot and travels mostly at 85 to 90 mph with a roof rack on his performance M3 and non standard tires. By comparison, I drive for range at posted speed limits and keep the tires pumped to pressure and watch my energy meter so I do better than EPA. Once I achieved 430 miles range last summer. But choosing to do a battery full with speed it only got 340 miles range. So real world is not representative and can be anything the writer wants to make it.

I think the Mach E is prettier than the Tesla MY but that is just opinion. I also prefer the better engineering and efficiency of the Tesla over the Mustang Mach E.

 

[TravelFree]

One more thing speaking of real world road trips with the Tesla vs any of the similar non-Tesla EV's. That is the charging network. Tesla is extremely reliable and simple to use. No apps, no credit cards just plug in and go. The CCS network is either much slower or doesn't work at all. Maybe next year they will get their act together but for now I wouldn't want to take any CCS car on a road trip. I simply don't need the frustration I see all the non-Tesla car owners suffering with the CCS charging network.

 

[jcanoe]

Please provide source data when making claims about performance, range, cargo capacity. Otherwise these types of claims may have no basis in fact.

Compare Electric Cars: EV Range, Specs, Pricing & More

The Ford Mach-E Standard Range (SR) has an 75kWh battery (similar to the battery capacity of the Tesla Long Range Model Y's 75kWh battery.)

Ford Mach-E Select SR RWD: 230 miles, Mach-E Select SR AWD: 211 miles
2021 Tesla Long Range Dual Motor Model Y: 326 miles

Mach-E Extended Range (ER) Premium RWD (98kWh battery), Range: 300 miles
Mach-E Extended Range (ER) Premium AWD (98kWh battery), Range: 270 miles
2021 Tesla Long Range Dual Motor Model Y (80kWh battery), Range 303 miles

After accounting for the latest slightly larger capacity 80kWh battery used in the 2021 Performance Model Y the Mach-E Extended Range vehicle requires a battery that is 22% larger capacity than the Tesla's battery, still does not exceed the EPA range of either the Long Range or the Performance Model Y. If there are claims that the Extended Range Mach-E's real world range exceeds that of the Long range Tesla Model Y then tests of both cars should be run under identical conditions.

For the Standard Range Mustang Mach-E with the 75kWh battery pack, 68kWh is usable.

For the Extended Range Mustang Mach-E with the 98kWh battery pack, 88kWh is usable. (The usable portion of the Mustang Mach-E's battery pack is more than 10% larger than the 2021 Tesla Performance Model Y's battery pack.)

 

[alexgr]

For the Standard Range Mustang Mach-E with the 75kWh battery pack, 68kWh is usable.

For the Extended Range Mustang Mach-E with the 98kWh battery pack, 88kWh is usable. (The usable portion of the Mustang Mach-E's battery pack is more than 10% larger than the 2021 Tesla Performance Model Y's battery pack.)

And I yet to find an answer on why does the Mach-E limits the charging speed by 11-12 kW at over 80% SOC when it already has over 10% extra battery reserves? It's either the Ford's battery sucks or the software/hardware sucks or both.

 

[pt19713]

And I yet to find an answer on why does the Mach-E limits the charging speed by 11-12 kW at over 80% SOC when it already has over 10% extra battery reserves? It's either the Ford's battery sucks or the software/hardware sucks or both.

Tesla did the same initially while they gather data. Nothing wrong with being conservative initially with their charging curves. I'm sure they'll get an OTA in the future when the engineers feel more confident in the battery pack.