Ehm... If a feature has been standard in almost every car for about 50 years (yes, 1960 is that long ago), you would expect it in a Tesla as well... Especially if it's a feature that has nothing to do with the car having an ICE or being electric...
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Ehm... If a feature has been standard in almost every car for about 50 years (yes, 1960 is that long ago), you would expect it in a Tesla as well... Especially if it's a feature that has nothing to do with the car having an ICE or being electric...
The rules in Denmark does not state anything regarding the lumens, it clearly just states that if it is a gas lamp "gasudladningslampe " it needs to have the headlight cleaning system. No matter have many lumens the lamp gives.
I was told that the new Mercedes E-class uses a kind of LED light instead of XENON, maybe the same is the case with the Tesla?
To be honest, I do have the headlight cleaners on my Mercedes W221 S-class, but never uses them, my guess is that this will not change when the car is replaced with the Tesla
/Martin
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Or you can say that every rule within the EU can be bend in any directions
"Xenon headlights with automatic on/off and LED daytime running lights". No LED headlights. Not many car manufacturers have that as standard. Usually expensive option. Did note that the BMW i8 had laserheadlights. Next thing after LED. Not sure what the law says around the headlight cleaning. If its a must or recommended feature?
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Never use them? The cars i have owned clean the lights at the same time as you use your windshieldcleaners... Its not any special button. I think some cars does it every x time you clean the windshield.
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Never use them? The cars i have owned clean the lights at the same time as you use your windshieldcleaners... Its not any special button. I think some cars does it every x time you clean the windshield.
I don't think Denmark can make their own rules. If a car is legal in the rest of the EU it is legal in Denmark too.
Look up UNECE Regulation 48.
William13
Active Member
@ hybrus, the point about the roofline is serious. I sat in the back of my car to experiment. Whiplash is caused by the occiput (pointy part of the back of your cranium) being higher than the headrest. This is true in other cars. Not the Model S. In the S my cranium is stopped by the roofline ridge when I sit with my occiput higher than the rear headrest. A very small cranium on a very long bodied person might not be protected, but I don't think I have seen this sort of person.
Just because everyone else has just used a headrest historically does not mean that Tesla must use the same paradigm. The American safety tests show great passenger safety statistics.
I agree that others have better fitting, more comfortable seats.
Just because everyone else has just used a headrest historically does not mean that Tesla must use the same paradigm. The American safety tests show great passenger safety statistics.
I agree that others have better fitting, more comfortable seats.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Re 1: that is a question I have too, but concerning the German market. Here, a headlight cleaning system is mandatory on all cars with Xenon headlights (I don't think the 2000 lumen rule applies here). So how Tesla can sell the Model S with the tech package (i.e. with Xenon headlights) but without headlight cleaning system in Germany and not get into trouble with the homologation I have no idea.
By the way, just for comparison, my headlight cleaning system always goes on when a) I use the windshield washer fluid and b) the headlights are on
Re 2: as much as I loved my test drive with the Model S in September, I did also test the rear seats and found the headroom very small. I am 187cm, and the car had the pano roof, still it felt cramped in the back. Definitely not comfortable (my head was resting against the downward slope of the rear roofline). Of course I would hardly ever sit in the back, but still.
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I don't think even Germany can make their own rules here but must follow EU regulations.
Here is the relevant regulation:
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/2013/R048r9e.pdf
Excerpt:
"6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps.
Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module( s) producing the principal dipped-beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device( s) according to Regulation No. 4511."
charliestyr
EVangelist
I was wondering about this headlight washer thing the other day funnily enough.
I came to the conclusion that the European cars are halogen headlights only, which is a bit lame, especially for a pricey car, but they seem to have done this to avoid having to design a headlight washer system.
From teslamotors.com (GB site)
On the specs page:
"Halogen headlights with automatic on/off and LED daytime running lights"
and on the design studio, in the tech package, there is NO mention of xenon headlights.
EDIT: on the German, Swedish (presumably all other EU) sites it says Xenon.. my bad. Perhaps UK site is more up to date since it has only just had the pricing released? I don't know. Otherwise, interesting that the UK site says Halogen!
To prove this we need to see a photo of someones headlights on a european model, or preferably the internals to see if there are ballasts for HID lighting. If there are ballasts, there will be issues with these cars! (failing MOT in the UK for example..) I personally presume there are no ballasts they are just using halogen for the EU models.
Perhaps headlight washers etc is coming down the line, and thus xenons.
Charlie -
I came to the conclusion that the European cars are halogen headlights only, which is a bit lame, especially for a pricey car, but they seem to have done this to avoid having to design a headlight washer system.
From teslamotors.com (GB site)
On the specs page:
"Halogen headlights with automatic on/off and LED daytime running lights"
and on the design studio, in the tech package, there is NO mention of xenon headlights.
EDIT: on the German, Swedish (presumably all other EU) sites it says Xenon.. my bad. Perhaps UK site is more up to date since it has only just had the pricing released? I don't know. Otherwise, interesting that the UK site says Halogen!
To prove this we need to see a photo of someones headlights on a european model, or preferably the internals to see if there are ballasts for HID lighting. If there are ballasts, there will be issues with these cars! (failing MOT in the UK for example..) I personally presume there are no ballasts they are just using halogen for the EU models.
Perhaps headlight washers etc is coming down the line, and thus xenons.
Charlie -
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Has this been tested in whiplashtests? Do the Euro NCAP test this? Would be interesting to see it verified in real tests! Anyone?
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If they are just halogen this is false marketing... The test in the magazine says they are Xenon and the dont understand why there are no headligh cleaners as its the law. They say Tesla says the headlights are not strong enough to need this. But in the test they put a big ? On that as they seem strong enough... Not sure and sometimes there are errors in tests but...
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Remember that the test was extremely positive. The tesla P85+ ate the BMW and the Lexus alive! We are dissecting the details that can be improved. So dont miss the point. the tesla ate a BMW M550xd alive in a swedish motormagazine. That is great news for Tesla. ;-) i did expect the tesla to do well but not win like that...
The EU cars are Xenon only. 25W xenons (not 35W) with <2000 lumen output, which does NOT require headlight washers in the EU per the regulations I quoted above.
charliestyr
EVangelist
Interesting, thanks for the clarification
Not sure why the UK market lists halogen only, I know the MoT test is pretty picky about HIDs and washers/self levelling. Probably just a typo though, as ultimately I'd imagine it just follows the EU rules.
I presume 25w is bright enough? I know of no other manufacturer that uses xenons that don't require washers etc, would have thought there's a reason.
Not sure why the UK market lists halogen only, I know the MoT test is pretty picky about HIDs and washers/self levelling. Probably just a typo though, as ultimately I'd imagine it just follows the EU rules.
I presume 25w is bright enough? I know of no other manufacturer that uses xenons that don't require washers etc, would have thought there's a reason.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
As I understand it the Model S has been through one independent crash test – the NHTSA. And in this test they did not test front seat whiplash protection. The Euro NCAP includes a test for front seat whiplash protection. But I have no idea if the Euro NCAP will test the Model S.
Interesting, thanks for the clarification
Not sure why the UK market lists halogen only, I know the MoT test is pretty picky about HIDs and washers/self levelling. Probably just a typo though, as ultimately I'd imagine it just follows the EU rules.
I presume 25w is bright enough? I know of no other manufacturer that uses xenons that don't require washers etc, would have thought there's a reason.
The 25W xenon system is very new, I think Tesla is the first to use the implementation. The 25W xenons light up the road just as far, but the cone is narrower (less light to the sides of the road). I think we'll see a lot of cars use this system soon, as it removes most of the extra cost associated with xenons (like the self-levelling system).
Also the addendum that specifies that headlights with <2000 lumen output does not require these systems is quite recent. April 2013 I think it was added.
Are we talking high beam or dipped beam lights here?
Or whatever the two are called in english...
In any case, in countries with lots of big wildlife narrower doesn't seem like a good idea...
Are we talking high beam or dipped beam lights here?
Or whatever the two are called in english...
In any case, in countries with lots of big wildlife narrower doesn't seem like a good idea...
Here is the excerpt again:
"Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module( s) producing the principal dipped-beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device( s) according to Regulation No. 4511.""
Another Swedish carmagazine called "Teknikens Värld" did a quick test of model S in their current issue. again loads of positive feedback even if it was not a full test. Check the video on the link below where they do an acceleration test vs the Jaguar F-type. Messing with the microphone. Just confirm what we already know... ;-)
Tesla Model S mot Jaguar F-Type S – accelerationstest | Bil och trafik | Teknikens Värld
Tesla Model S mot Jaguar F-Type S – accelerationstest | Bil och trafik | Teknikens Värld
charliestyr
EVangelist
As far as I know the reasoning behind washers being required on HIDs in the EU is because if the headlights get dirty, the extremely bright focused area of light from the projector then gets diffused on the dirty headlight potentially dazzling oncoming road users. Evidently they also decided that below 2000 lumen is not bright enough to do the same thing
It's a usual loophole situation that makes very little sense!
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