Th!nk (Think) EV

[DDB]

Supposedly think is going to be coming to U.S. markets in 2008, with cars already on the road in Europe that can drive freeway speeds have ranges of 110-130:


http://news.com.com/2061-11128_3-6161125.html?tag=nefd.top


Note a couple of things in the article: The buyer will lease the battery from Think. And, "The company is battery agnostic, he added. The company will get batteries from Tesla. Willums, however, also said that the company is working with a Swiss company that makes a submarine battery"

...So Tesla will have another source of monthly income?

 

[WarpedOne]

Re: Think! in 2008

...So Tesla will have another source of monthly income?

It looks like, yes. It may be a very good move to sell battery-pack tech. Tesla said they've put a lot of money into developement of battery support systems and almost everyone except Tesla is whinning about existing battery tech not being good enough. In this way more companies will produce electric vehicles and Tesla will have more money. Both will drive the prices down.

 

[DDB]

Re: Think! in 2008

So why doesn't GM jump at the opportunity to find a decent battery for its Volt... Heck, even EDrive, EBox, and some of the other convestion companies have the technology.

 

[tonybelding]

Re: Think! in 2008

The Chevy Volt has a smaller battery and actually flogs it a lot harder than the Tesla Roadster does. Today's li-ion cells aren't durable enough, they would degrade and soon need replacement.

You can do the math yourself. . . Assume the batteries are good for 500 charge-and-discharge cycles. At 250 miles per charge, the Tesla's battery needs replacement after 125,000 miles. At 40 miles per charge, the Chevy Volt would need a new battery after only 20,000 miles. It's not practical.

GM are trying to make a round peg fit into a square hole, while Tesla designed their car around the technology's strengths.

 

[vfx]

Re: Think! in 2008

But if it were to cost 1/6th the price, would it not be a wash?

 

[tonybelding]

Re: Think! in 2008

But if it were to cost 1/6th the price, would it not be a wash?

The quoted capacity is 16 kWh, which is about 1/3 that of the Tesla. At today's li-ion prices that would be somewhere around $6500. (For reference the Prius has a 1.3 kWh battery.)

 

[donauker]

Kleiner Perkins, Think Global launch U.S. electric car company

Kleiner Perkins, Think Global launch U.S. electric car company

 

[malcolm]

Thanks donauker. Any word on range etc?

 

[DDB]

Not a word on specs or pricing. I'm encouraged though. Finally some competition in the BEV market. Still, I'm worried Americans will look at the City and think it looks like an egg that has crappy 0-60 and range. Maybe Th!nk is planning on bringing the Ox here...that IS worth celebrating.

 

[Cobos]

The specs for the Think City has been out for a long time. Max Speed 60mph-ish. Range 180km (111miles). Acceleration 0-50km/h 6.5 seconds or acceleration 0-80km/h 16.0 seconds. The max speed in Norway is 62mph so the speed limit is electronically limited. So I suppose physical max speed might be more 65-70mph, but this is no Tesla. It is a good city car though with usefull range, and airbags and everything. I daresay this might really crimp Zaps Zebra sales as this does much of what that vehicle does at not too much more money.
In Norway it's priced at $39 800 + $250/month mobility pack
In UK it's said to be $27 700 + $198/month mobility pack
But looking at Tesla's European prices compared to US prices, I bet it's going to be cheaper in the US actually than listed for UK.

Cobos

 

[Cobos]

Not a word on specs or pricing. I'm encouraged though. Finally some competition in the BEV market. Still, I'm worried Americans will look at the City and think it looks like an egg that has crappy 0-60 and range. Maybe Th!nk is planning on bringing the Ox here...that IS worth celebrating.

The good thing about Think establishing themselves in the US is that as soon as the Ox does get made and produced the way to the US market should be very short...

Cobos

 

[doug]

Cobos, what kind of battery pack is that info for? When I first read up on Th!nk they were using Zebra (molten salt) batteries. I know the Li-ion pack from Tesla fell though, are they using Li-ion batteries in this current generation of the Thi!nk City?


Btw, Kleiner Perkins is the same VC firm that's backing Fisker (and EEstore).

 

[Cobos]

Cobos, what kind of battery pack is that info for? When I first read up on Th!nk they were using Zebra (molten salt) batteries. I know the Li-ion pack from Tesla fell though, are they using Li-ion batteries in this current generation of the Thi!nk City?

On their webpage they are listing Zebra, Enerdel and A123 batteries. Especially A123 is very hot now with the GE connection. While for Enerdel it seems Think is their bigticket order. So it seems it will be Li-ion batteries, but the range is still listed as 180km, but Think is not very good at updating their specs (or webpage).

Cobos

 

[BBHighway]

The City seems like a real nice step up from the ZAP Xebra. Highway speeds, longer range, and 33% more wheels. I think I could use on of those on a daily basis. I don't know what the US price would be, does anyone else have a guess?

 

[Cobos]

The City seems like a real nice step up from the ZAP Xebra. Highway speeds, longer range, and 33% more wheels. I think I could use on of those on a daily basis. I don't know what the US price would be, does anyone else have a guess?

If you read a bit around on Thinks webpage they are talking about 20 000 Euro as price as well as £14 000 so I'm guessing anything below $20 000 is completely unrealistic. My guess would be in the $20 000 - $25 000 range + mobility pack for the US. The next 1-2 years I guess the problem will be to produce enough so not much incentive to slash prices.

Cobos

 

[donauker]

Not a word on specs or pricing. I'm encouraged though. Finally some competition in the BEV market. Still, I'm worried Americans will look at the City and think it looks like an egg that has crappy 0-60 and range. Maybe Th!nk is planning on bringing the Ox here...that IS worth celebrating.

This excerpt from the article:

Think North America will sell the Think City, its two-seater battery-powered car, as well as a forthcoming five-seater called the Think Ox.

 

[Cobos]

This excerpt from the article: Think North America will sell the Think City, its two-seater battery-powered car, as well as a forthcoming five-seater called the Think Ox.

I haven't actually seen Think tell anyone that the Ox has moved from concept status to actual production intent. But considering that everyone says they like the Ox a lot more than the City I suppose they will make it.
There will supposedly be small EV announcement this Saturday at a local ZEV car festival here in Oslo. I thought I'd take a look so if there is anything big you'll be the first to know


Cobos

 

[Kardax]

While a Think car might make sense in Europe where fuel and vehicle taxes are so high, it's not financially viable in this country. Taxes are low here, and fuel is still relatively cheap.

So what's the Think advantage? The only safe highway-capable production EV under $100,000? That might be enough for a few hundred customers a year, maybe even a couple thousand, but it won't make a dent in the 16 million vehicles a year that are sold in the U.S.

It's a good first effort, but they need to improve every aspect of that car if they want to be relevant.

-Ryan

 

[DDB]

Well, answers the price question. They're shooting for sub-$25,000.

VC firms bet on Th!nk - AutoblogGreen


That helps, but it tells me they're sticking with the City at first. I can't imagine this will sell anywhere other than urban centers and retirement communities. If I were think I'd seriously reconsider starting with the Ox. If the City is THE sub-$25,000 BEV in the states, it's going to get creamed by the MiEV. Thougts on that one?

 

[Cobos]

I also agree that the MiEV in many ways looks like a much better car than the City, BUT we don't know the pricing of the MiEV yet. If the Think has a big price advantage it might turn out different. Remember the city is intended as a nr 2 car, not the primary car so you can accept different sets of compromises. While the MiEV might be regarded as a small nr 1 car... And of course if Think can sell cars for about a year before the MiEV comes they can both survive nicely I suppose.

Cobos