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Thanksgiving 2022 charging stories?

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
17,446
23,369
Riverside Co. CA
No! I definitely don't. I hate that.

Of course--because that is what the word means, and that's how I'm using it.

Yes, basically. It is HOLDING the item for a SPECIFIC person. But that is why there is this unavoidable problem that this can't ever be perfectly exact timing all of the time, so there WILL be unused idle time.


Exactly. How late?! 15 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes? That is some amount of time that the stall is being wasted. There are various things to try to lower the amount of time the resource sits unused but can't eliminate it if it's a reservation.

Look, this has been gone over in plenty of detail in the Supercharger queueing thread and isn't about Thanksgiving:

Queueing systems would be a welcome addition to organize or prioritize who the next person is who gets to jump into an open slot as soon as it becomes free. That would be great. But actual reservations--holding stalls for people--introduces stalls being idle, and that's definitely something to avoid.

If there was any sort of reservation (not queueing, which I think is a good idea ), just even imaging a line of cars with an empty stall there with "reserved" flashing on it or something, even if it had a 5 minute countdown, would cause UNGODLY amounts of drama. Either it would get ignored completely, and the next person in line would simply ignore any such signage and pull in and start charging (then when the person arrived 3 minutes late, they would have no spot, or have the appearance of trying to cut in line, etc).

It would be ALL over every single internet blog about cars everywhere, as a clear example of "what not to do".

Reservations cant work for something like this, for all the reasons you just laid out, and basic human nature. Seeing people "cut in line" even if they reserved it, only works when people feel there is someone in control of the entire thing (like a restaurant front door staff, etc). Unless you were going to staff a supercharger with people holding spots for reservations, and all that entails (having people see the empty spot if they were waiting, etc), it not only would not work, it would cause a huge amount of resentment / drama / possibly even altercations between "already stressed from travel" adults.
 
We seem to be going down quite the rabbit hole, here. I'm very interested in hearing personal experiences about charging over the Thanksgiving holiday. So far, as of this afternoon, charging from Seattle to the Canadian border is holding up well - nothing is full.
so far, we don't seem to have any negative reports.

I looked at the state of affairs for the major I-5 stops between LA and SF an hour ago and saw plenty of availability. Not sure when it would get bad. Sunday is a bit more concentrated as people come home, whereas departure time is a bit more spread out. (many schools just gave up and make the whole week off)
 
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ngng

Active Member
Jul 23, 2018
2,040
1,172
Bay Area
We seem to be going down quite the rabbit hole, here. I'm very interested in hearing personal experiences about charging over the Thanksgiving holiday. So far, as of this afternoon, charging from Seattle to the Canadian border is holding up well - nothing is full.

Charged to 100 this morning in San Jose while I checked email/had coffee and there was nobody around. Looked like a short wait was starting as I left around 1130. This charger is historically pretty busy.

Was planning on stopping at Atascadero but nav rerouted to Paso. Nobody here.

I'm interested what experiences people have tomorrow on the 101 corridor.
 

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
Well, not much in the way of overloaded chargers in the central valley this afternoon. Maybe a dozen chargers around the state marked at short wait.
1669260356769.png
 

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
Well, not much in the way of overloaded chargers in the central valley this afternoon.
No! I definitely don't. I hate that.

Of course--because that is what the word means, and that's how I'm using it.

Yes, basically. It is HOLDING the item for a SPECIFIC person. But that is why there is this unavoidable problem that this can't ever be perfectly exact timing all of the time, so there WILL be unused idle time.


Exactly. How late?! 15 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes? That is some amount of time that the stall is being wasted. There are various things to try to lower the amount of time the resource sits unused but can't eliminate it if it's a reservation.
As I have explained, with supercharging you have a magic power not typically there in other systems.

You can cancel the reservation if they are negative one hour late. By which I mean, if one hour before the session if they are a 65 minute drive away, you cancel it. And then at 30 minutes out if they are 33 minutes away, you cancel it. And so on. (You have to take some care you don't encourage them to speed, but you can do that since you know how much they are speeding, and you can also just set the rules so speeding doesn't help you.)

Sure, with a restaurant table, you have to refuse clients who show up 10 minutes before the reservation to see the empty table. And even 10 minutes after the reservation you may still hold it, and then release it. This is not a restaurant table. You can always release the reservation before it starts. Since this is a supercharging reservation automatically made by a route planner, for most people you will know 2-3 hours in advance if they aren't going to be able to make it.

Now in most cases you would not cancel it. If I have a reservation for 6pm and at 5pm I am 90 minutes out, the system could try to make a new reservation for me at 6:30. Maybe it can make one, maybe it can't. Maybe somebody else will be late and it can later find a slot. Maybe it can't.

But I can do even more than this. I can even let you be late to some amount. Say you will be 15 minutes late, and your reservation was for 40 minutes. I can still give you 25 minutes of charge, and I might be able to find more for you. And I can allocate your 15 minutes to somebody else, and I can allocate that at 5pm when I know you won't make 6pm. The reservation isn't for a specific stall, of course, so that doesn't mean that I take your stall and tell somebody they can go into it for 15 minutes, though sometimes maybe I do exactly that -- if people are waiting in the virtual queue, they will take that 15 minutes. It comes with a fat penalty if they stay longer than 15 minutes, very fat, so you will get your stall if I grant you this grace.

But the stalls are vacant almost never. Again, the arrival of cars is never a surprise. The SoC when they arrive is not a surprise. The SoC they need to leave is not a surprise. It's all known hours in advance for people on long trips.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
17,446
23,369
Riverside Co. CA
But the stalls are vacant almost never. Again, the arrival of cars is never a surprise. The SoC when they arrive is not a surprise. The SoC they need to leave is not a surprise. It's all known hours in advance for people on long trips.

Maybe if robots are driving (and the ones being driven) but we are talking about humans, who speed up, slow down, pull off to get snacks, use the restroom, etc. During holiday travel, if things actually go the way someone planned them, they feel like they hit the lotto.
 
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bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
Maybe if robots are driving (and the ones being driven) but we are talking about humans, who speed up, slow down, pull off to get snacks, use the restroom, etc. During holiday travel, if things actually go the way someone planned them, they feel like they hit the lotto.
I guess you've never run Waze. It creeps the hell out of me how accurately it predicts arrival times, even an hour out.

That's why any reservation based plan, as i detailed above, would include slop time for just these sort of things. And the ability for the driver to say "I will need more slop time than this" before making their reservation plan. And I described about the various things you do when you arrive early, as you will if you put in too much slop.

However, if you know there are waits at the charger for those without reservations, and you can see you have a small margin, you will not pull off to get snacks. If you didn't put in pee breaks that's your fault, as those would be in the default plan and you would have explicitly have to say, "do not allow for typical rest stops" and if you say that, then that's your problem.

Look, every day a billion commuters know they have to be at work at a certain time, and almost all of them make it. People are fully capable of this. But some won't. They miss their reservation and need to wait in line or take a different plan. They probably know well in advance they are going to miss it, allowing them to find another plan -- such as a different charger. Because some fraction of people will be missing their reservations, the good news is that many others will get lucky and grab those slots because they are now off schedule. You could even consider giving them first shot at them.

I didn't describe it but a reservation system could also not come for free. And perhaps if you pay extra you get more ability to be late. Again, when you are late we know in advance, so your missed time is given to somebody else, the stall doesn't sit empty like a restaurant table.

I don't expect everybody to make reservations of course, though it might be recommended on busy travel days. If everybody did, you might get a message, "Sorry, all chargers on your route are booked. Consider this alternate route, or alternate departure time. Or realize you may have to wait a while at some stations." Better than everybody waiting a long time.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
10,103
19,838
California
8pm Wednesday, just went out to look at the map. None of the high traffic travel stations between Northern and Southern California were much more than half full.

Harris Ranch, Kettleman City, Tejon Ranch, Fresno, Paso Robles, San Luis Obispo, etc etc…. All had ample and immediate availability.

Looking out toward Vegas as far as the nav would let me see, no obvious problems there either. Mojave, Barstow, Yermo all looking good.
 

bmah

Moderator, Supercharger Hunter
Global Moderator
Mar 17, 2015
5,244
11,487
Lafayette, CA, USA
Happy Thanksgiving! I'm not traveling, but looking at the nav in my car at just before 1300 PST I see that:

Every SF Bay Area Supercharger has at least one open stall, the vast majority with multiple stalls free.

Between the Bay Area and LA: Every Supercharger on CA-99 and US-101 has at least one open stall. Every Supercharger on I-5 has at least one open stall except for Bakersfield and Buttonwillow (which are smaller V2 locations). The larger sites (i.e. Santa Nella, Firebaugh, Harris Ranch, both Kettleman City sites, both Tejon Ranch sites) all have lots of openings.

Between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe: On US-50 every site has at least one open stall. On I-80 every site has at least one open stall except for Auburn.

Bruce.
 
Nothing to report. SF to LA on Wed and return Saturday. Both via I-5. No issues at all at Kettleman City original and Patterson. Overall traffic wasn’t bad either. Checking the car along the way showed busy chargers along I-5 but none were full.

Edit: we left at 7am both ways so I would guess later in the day was more of a test
 
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Arrived at Harris Ranch at 3pm yesterday with 2 or 3 stalls available. We stopped there and charged first thing this morning when it was empty (at 5:45!). By 7am around 6 cars charging. On the way south the car rerouted me to 4 different chargers, before sending me to Tustin which was full. Only a 5 minute wait and then 10minutes to complete our journey. So a small wait, but not horrible.
 
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bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
Arrived at Harris Ranch at 3pm yesterday with 2 or 3 stalls available. We stopped there and charged first thing this morning when it was empty (at 5:45!). By 7am around 6 cars charging. On the way south the car rerouted me to 4 different chargers, before sending me to Tustin which was full. Only a 5 minute wait and then 10minutes to complete our journey. So a small wait, but not horrible.
When you say it "rerouted you" do you mean that after it picked a route with one charger, it then changed it while you were driving (because it was full?) I have never experienced that and didn't know it was a feature. Didn't expect overload mid-weekend, expect tomorrow to be the big day.
 
I got a “redirecting to a less busy charger” alert today too. First time. Maybe it’s a part of the new software. We were navigating to Gustine on I-5 with ~25% estimated at arrival and then it redirected us to Patterson as Gustine was full. Arrived at Patterson with 14% I think and two empty stalls. Very cool feature.

Rerouting happened a few minutes before the exit.
 

ngng

Active Member
Jul 23, 2018
2,040
1,172
Bay Area
I got a “redirecting to a less busy charger” alert today too. First time. Maybe it’s a part of the new software. We were navigating to Gustine on I-5 with ~25% estimated at arrival and then it redirected us to Patterson as Gustine was full. Arrived at Patterson with 14% I think and two empty stalls. Very cool feature.

Rerouting happened a few minutes before the exit.

Yeah, it appears where it the nav normally would say "preconditioning"
 

Hayseed_MS

Spreader of "Endless Non Sequitur"
Jan 19, 2021
3,172
12,889
Strongbadia
8pm Wednesday, just went out to look at the map. None of the high traffic travel stations between Northern and Southern California were much more than half full.

Harris Ranch, Kettleman City, Tejon Ranch, Fresno, Paso Robles, San Luis Obispo, etc etc…. All had ample and immediate availability.

Looking out toward Vegas as far as the nav would let me see, no obvious problems there either. Mojave, Barstow, Yermo all looking good.

Checked the Tesla charger in my garage and it was 100% full on Thanksgiving. I did not have a reservation but I did pay idle fees.
 

srs5694

Active Member
Jan 15, 2019
1,620
2,175
Woonsocket, RI
When you say it "rerouted you" do you mean that after it picked a route with one charger, it then changed it while you were driving (because it was full?) I have never experienced that and didn't know it was a feature. Didn't expect overload mid-weekend, expect tomorrow to be the big day.
I've seen that once, but not on a real road trip. At an EV event a few months ago, I was demonstrating how my Model 3's navigation system would suggest places to charge on a road trip, and I pointed out that it was suggesting a stop at such-and-such a Supercharger, which had x stalls, y of which were free (y being a fairly small number -- 2, IIRC). A couple of minutes later, I noticed that the car had changed its recommendation to stop at a different Supercharger site, which had more stalls free. I pointed this out to the person to whom I was demonstrating the system, who seemed impressed by it.
 
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