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That Little Water Pump

Discussion in 'Roadster: Technical' started by Martin, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. Martin

    Martin Tesla Founder

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    #1 Martin, Oct 12, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
    Have you ever noticed the sound of a water pump running in the back of a parked Tesla? It runs pretty much all the time, and makes the coolant gurgle in its overflow tank in the back of the car. I got curious about it and did a few experiments to determine how much energy this little pump consumes. The answer was a bit of a shocker.

    Read about it in my most recent blog.
     
  2. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Interesting article. Let's hope it is taken in the way that I expect you meant it to be.
     
  3. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    #3 malcolm, Oct 13, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
    Someone should have caught this one at the EP/VP stage.

    This proves that you just can't carry out fault-finding in a blame-culture. :wink:

    What a pity Tesla didn't have a "product architect" who was actually focussed on the product.

    (Wow! Have I just fallen off the wagon or what!)
     
  4. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    I'm still waiting for someone to enlighten us why ESS needs this constant pumping.

    Is it an "oversight" or are there some fundamental problems that for the time being could only be solved in this way.
     
  5. Martin

    Martin Tesla Founder

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    Totally. I hope they let the pump rest with the 1.5 drive train!
     
  6. Chris H.

    Chris H. Member

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    Malcolm,

    I'm starting to worry that you may have come over to the "dark side"... :biggrin:

    ATB,

    Chris
     
  7. graham

    graham Active Member

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    It is unclear to me based on Martin's description if that is the case or not. Is it possible that Martin's specific car has a defect?

    As best as I can tell there are 3 possibilities:

    1) Martin's Roadster has something wrong with it that others do not.
    2) Drivetrain 1.0 has something wrong with it, but they have fixed it by now
    3) There is a design defect that will plague all Roadsters.

    3 (and to an extent 2) are things that should that have been caught earlier -- but I haven't heard anyone suggest on this site or Martin's that he may just have a broken part which needs replacing.

    If it is true that this is a design fault which plagues all Roadsters, they should have caught it before now, and they had better jump on fixing it quickly. Seems like something that should be able to be patched in firmware...
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, better to slip in the fix under the blanket of the 1.5 upgrade than face the bad PR of a separate recall.
     
  9. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I did ask if once the DT 1.5 hardware was in place, they could easily download newer software, but apparently this is not the case (depends on the definition of easly, I suppose). So maybe it can be done at servicing time.

    Martin, is this something you ever noticed on the EPs/VPs before?
     
  10. Joseph

    Joseph Member

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    The only comforting thing about all of this is knowing that the Roadster is only Gen I. The next Gen (Whitestar) should be far more refined. It took 100 years and fierce competition for gas cars to get where they are today; EVs are still only in their infancy.
     
  11. Martin

    Martin Tesla Founder

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    When I left, the engineers were still refining the control algorithms. At that stage, we all knew that we still had a lot of work to do before the car was ready for prime time.

    Obviously, I cannot be specific. :cool:
     
  12. Michael

    Michael Member

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    If something isn't working as we'd like it to, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a design defect. I've taken a vehicle into the dealership before where something wasn't as I expected, wanted, or felt was reasonable and was told 'working as designed'. However I would guess that if enough folks were to complain about this particular situation, it would be addressed as a design improvement.
    Personally I would have expected that the cooling pump would only be working while the vehicle has been activated or is being charged, but we each have our own opinions about how something should work.
     
  13. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    #13 malcolm, Oct 14, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
    Sorry Chris. I forgot to take my pills :frown:

    It would seem something of a stretch to describe a device which can discharge half of the energy in the battery all by itself, in just over 7.5 days as a "feature".

    This is like having the courtesy light stay on FAR too long, or a small hole half way up your gas tank. Once people start using that sort of analogy, Tesla will have to move quickly. It's money down the drain.

    Even daytime running lights (on ICE vehicles) are a bit daft, but at least you can turn those off when you exit the vehicle.
     
  14. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    #14 malcolm, Oct 14, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
    Tesla Motors - think

    Well the pump certainly limits the time the battery spends at a high state of charge. About 72 hours max at 80% or above
     
  15. graham

    graham Active Member

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    So we decided to put the batteries in a fridge, and then run that fridge off those batteries...
     
  16. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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  17. Martin

    Martin Tesla Founder

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    #17 Martin, Oct 14, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
    Edmunds also has a funny definition of the word "courtesy" as in "photo courtesy of teslafounders.com". What they mean here is that they scraped the image from my website without even asking me...
     
  18. Tdave

    Tdave Member

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    As a photographer, I can tell you that's a violation of copyright.
     
  19. chimpanzee

    chimpanzee Member

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    Martin needs to put in a copyright notice on his website like:

    "all photos are copyright ©2008 Martin Eberhard, any use/distribution without the expressed written consent of Martin Eberhard is strictly prohibited"

    [ probably stick a fine of say $300K per violation ]

    So, the above will give you legal contract which will be useful in pursuing damages. I know of somebody (fool, small company engaged in all sorts of illegal/unethical activity) who infringed on a photographer's photo (notorious for suing people), & got sued for $300K. I think it was settled for $30K. One photograph. Those morons infringed on me x2 (photo & video), so I guess I will be suing for $600k..maybe getting $60K. Another moron (wealthy famous guy, wife is a famous TV actress) stole 2 of my videos & wantonly posts web photos on forum posts. This guy is really gonna get it. I could actually buy a Roadster (& have extra left), by pursuing claims from this "collateral damage".

    Putting photos on a website without a visual watermark gives some people (mistakenly), the impression that they can be used freely. I think this is what happened in this case. I just heard from someone, who claimed there is some thing floating around that says "any photo that's put on the web is free game". The whole Intellectual Property thing on digital media is in flux these days.

    "develop it..PROTECT IT!"
    -- S.H., unofficial legal counsel for my Jumplive.com multimedia project

    Every company has a product, brand-name ("intellectual property") that needs to be protected.

    "If you don't Control the Media..THE MEDIA WILL CONTROL YOU"
    -- xx, as Champcar was failing (PR Dept totally dropped the ball)

    This incident needs to be nipped-at-the-bud, otherwise other media will follow suit. There also needs to be an active media campaign (say with a viral medium like iTunes video-podcasting) to combat the "false claims of Tesla founders"
     
  20. chimpanzee

    chimpanzee Member

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    I fly R/C airplanes, & the NiCad (or NiMh) batteries get really HOT after a flight. Is it possible that the batteries have issues with post-drive heat dissipation? Maybe the algorithm for cooling batteries is too agressive.

    "Don't attribute to Conspiracy, which could be explained by Incompetence"
    -- Napoleon

    Maybe it was a software hack (intentional), as more spite against Martin. Prolonged late delivery, accident, etc.
     

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