That Motor Trend 1 foot rollout

[sorka]

Yes you can it is cheating if a manufacturer puts numbers without rollout and numbers with rollout into the same comparison table to make their performance cars look better. That is what Tesla did with P85D (and then later told us they "forgot" to add add an asterisk that only P cars were tested with rollout). They couldn't even use the BS excuse they tried with the power numbers, claiming that 463hp in an EV counts as 691hp, because the 0-60 times they were comparing were all Tesla EV's. A non-cheating way is to use the same measurement method when comparing specs, which is what other manufactures do.

So your saying they're still incorrectly quotting the non performance models to make them look slower than they are with the 1ft rollout?

 

[sorka]

"Roll-out"

(Correct me please if I misunderstand.)

From a physics standpoint, this makes no sense, since 0-60 measures final velocity over time, not distance. Second, at speed, your tires are now larger than at the start due to centrifugal forces, so you actually travel more distance with every revolution, but who cares, because we are measuring final speed/time, not distance. Third, your final speed/time is all dependent on your rate of distance change thru time (squared), so discounting the first foot of travel means you must discount the acceleration thru that distance, which could be a little, or could be a lot, since acceleration may not be purely exponential thru time. IOW, the 1 foot roll-out sounds like a bunch of gear heads decided to fudge what they could not compute. "The way we've always done it" is never good reasoning to do something.

As an educational aside, if the point of staging (start) is at the front base of the tire, what trips the clock to stop at the end of the drag track, the same front base of tire? I ask because the tire is now measurably, sometimes visibly bigger than at the start.

They don't start the clock until 1ft of travel.

 

[faughtz]

Yes you can it is cheating if a manufacturer puts numbers without rollout and numbers with rollout into the same comparison table to make their performance cars look better. That is what Tesla did with P85D (and then later told us they "forgot" to add add an asterisk that only P cars were tested with rollout). They couldn't even use the BS excuse they tried with the power numbers, claiming that 463hp in an EV counts as 691hp, because the 0-60 times they were comparing were all Tesla EV's. A non-cheating way is to use the same measurement method when comparing specs, which is what other manufactures do.

Yes, I believe this was done deceptively, and deliberately, cheating me out of thousands of dollars - since in reality there was not much difference between P85D and 85D. Except the substantial price differential.

 

[sorka]

Yes, I believe this was done deceptively, and deliberately, cheating me out of thousands of dollars - since in reality there was not much difference between P85D and 85D. Except the substantial price differential.

3.1 vs 4.2 (both with 1ft rollout) are in different universes.

I've driven both. There is no comparison. The difference was even greater before the 85D got it's power increase update.

 

[faughtz]

3.1 vs 4.2 (both with 1ft rollout) are in different universes.

I've driven both. There is no comparison. The difference was even greater before the 85D got it's power increase update.

In my universe, I would not have paid the P85D premium, had I seen the equivalent specs for both cars. Of course, if I knew then, what I know now, I would not have purchased a tesla.

 

[sorka]

In my universe, I would not have paid the P85D premium, had I seen the equivalent specs for both cars. Of course, if I knew then, what I know now, I would not have purchased a tesla.

I agree with you on that last part.

 

[whitex]

So your saying they're still incorrectly quotting the non performance models to make them look slower than they are with the 1ft rollout?

Correct, that is what they did, combined with overstating the car's power by 50% and then trying to weasel out of that one with lame excuse that motors are capable but not with the battery or the inverter that came with the car - all that to justify $25K extra for P85D over 85D.

 

[sorka]

Correct, that is what they did, combined with overstating the car's power by 50% and then trying to weasel out of that one with lame excuse that motors are capable but not with the battery or the inverter that came with the car - all that to justify $25K extra for P85D over 85D.

I'm with you on the power thing for 691 reasons, but are they STILL understating the non performance models acceleration?

 

[aerodyne]

Reading this thread, I suddenly feel much better having a 85D with better range and efficiency and better ride and tire cost/wear than the P85D which would have cost more to boot...

 

[sorka]

Reading this thread, I suddenly feel much better having a 85D with better range and efficiency and better ride and tire cost/wear than the P85D which would have cost more to boot...

That's just plain ludicrous

 

[sorka]

do you still own a Tesla? If so, why?

The question you should have asked is if I'd ever buy another one AFTER what I've seen.

 

[Bill Price]

They don't start the clock until 1ft of travel.

Everyone is so concerned with 1 foot of rollout? A 1/4 of a second? But no one is concerned with the rollout time of the model Y or the cybertruck?

 

[aerodyne]

For me, I reserved the RWD with the assumption no one is going to cut me off or coal roll me when they see that thing, so 0-60 in 6.5 is good enough, even with 1 sec rollout....

 

[whitex]

I'm with you on the power thing for 691 reasons, but are they STILL understating the non performance models acceleration?

I don't know, probably not, but with Tesla things change fast and I don't care enough to keep up anymore.

 

[Fleer]

I'm with you on the power thing for 691 reasons, but are they STILL understating the non performance models acceleration?

They still list the non Ps without rollout. So 85D vs P85D both with rollout, P85D is ~3.2 and 85D would be ~3.9. Without rollout 85D is ~4.2 (as Tesla states) and P85D would be ~3.5.

 

[voltage]

They still list the non Ps without rollout. So 85D vs P85D both with rollout, P85D is ~3.2 and 85D would be ~3.9. Without rollout 85D is ~4.2 (as Tesla states) and P85D would be ~3.5.

What about Raven models. Are numbers listed with or without rollout?

 

[Fleer]

What about Raven models. Are numbers listed with or without rollout?

I don't know for sure but I don't see any reason why they would reverse how they've been advertising 0-60 for performance and non performance for years.

 

[voltage]

I don't know for sure but I don't see any reason why they would reverse how they've been advertising 0-60 for performance and non performance for years.

Found a couple relevant threads. Could they make this anymore confusing.

First Raven Refresh Model S P100D 1/4 time. The best dragy is 2.6 and that seems an outlier as only a few 2.7s and then a bunch of 2.8s. That's without the nonsense 1 ft rollout. With the nonsense 1 ft rollout, MT got 2.28.

Raven long range real world 0-60. LR 0-60 in 3s with 1 foot rollout.

Looks to me that LR Raven 0-60 is about the same as model 3 performance.

 

[tyler2323]

I don't know for sure but I don't see any reason why they would reverse how they've been advertising 0-60 for performance and non performance for years.

They specifically state the times are with 1ft roll out. However their times are inconsistent on certain years and models like 2015-2016 P90DL. As well as their kw/hp are all almost wrong.

Usually about 2 tenths a second is what you could subtract to equal a 1ft roll out. So 2.6=2.4 2.8=2.6 etc

If you click on view additional information after building your own Tesla you will see it.

 

[tyler2323]

Found a couple relevant threads. Could they make this anymore confusing.

First Raven Refresh Model S P100D 1/4 time. The best dragy is 2.6 and that seems an outlier as only a few 2.7s and then a bunch of 2.8s. That's without the nonsense 1 ft rollout. With the nonsense 1 ft rollout, MT got 2.28.

Raven long range real world 0-60. LR 0-60 in 3s with 1 foot rollout.

Looks to me that LR Raven 0-60 is about the same as model 3 performance.

Dragy’s give you the 1 ft roll out. At the bottom where it breaks down the 0-60mph times you’ll see a time for 0-60 1ft. That’s the 1ft roll out time.