That TPMS issue, summarized

[markwj]

Sabotage is a deliberate act. That would mean someone specific, a chain of command, instructing this to happen, and suppressing the real cause. Perhaps modifying software to randomly cause the failure?

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that.

Occam's Razor would suggest that it is far more likely that they have a software bug in a module sourced from a supplier 7+ years ago, and that all the original engineers have moved on. I doubt they have anybody looking at this, or anybody high up in HQ is even aware of the issue. The front-line staff (service centres) have no idea of the issue, and can only do what they always do - the antenna is not working, so suggest to replace it.

If we want to get this fixed, the best approach is to write it all up (scotty2541 has the corruption data examples from antennas, in various places in this forum), and send it in. I doubt that Tesla can/will prioritise this, but at the moment they don't even know the issue exists.

 

[ViviV]

It is most likely unrelated to the TPMS issue, but I just got a flat tire tonight (driver's rear). Obviously the TPMS did not warn me so I don't know when it happened or how long I was driving on it (I presume I would have noticed, but it was completely flat 30 min after arriving at my gym -- a friend pointed it out to me). Found a screw in the tread. I, or more accurately, my CrossFit coach used an electric pump which I carry in the trunk to pump up the tire which enabled me to drive it to NTB (it was after hours so had to leave it outside overnight ). Therefore, I will give NTB a shot at looking at the TPMS first since it will be there anyway with the tire off. I have also been in touch with my local Tesla service center by email -- the service advisor said he would check with the shop Foreman about whether it can be done at an outside shop (I asked for a loaner programming tool), however most likely I'll need to take it in. I will let you all know how it turns out.

 

[ViviV]

My guess is rear antenna issue.

@markwj made the correct diagnosis. Tesla replaced the rear TPMS antenna ($227) today and it is now working!
What I don't fully understand are 2 things:
1) How the sensors were able to communicate with the car logs such that they were recording the actual rear pressures even without a functional antenna? [the service person knew I had had a flat rear tire while the TPMS antenna was not working] If it can get the data without the antenna, why does it need them?
2) why did OVMS give a temperature and pressure for the rear tires if it is not updating with real-time data?

 

[markwj]

1) How the sensors were able to communicate with the car logs such that they were recording the actual rear pressures even without a functional antenna? [the service person knew I had had a flat rear tire while the TPMS antenna was not working] If it can get the data without the antenna, why does it need them?

Probably based on the last value seen (which is readable on the can bus, and presumably remotely accessible to tesla engineers).

2) why did OVMS give a temperature and pressure for the rear tires if it is not updating with real-time data?

OVMS behaves differently than the Tesla system. In the Tesla system on the VDS, if a sensor / antenna is not reporting, the value is not shown at all. In the OVMS system, we always show the last reported value, but if it has not been updated in a while then we show it in gray colour (to indicate it is stale).

 

[ViviV]

we show it in gray colour

Thanks for your response. What you say makes sense, but it was not gray for me. See photos in post #36. That is how it looked even today before repair with info on all 4 tires looking the same, 21 days after the error message started. The clue that it was false was that the numbers for the rear tires did not change at all over those 21 days and the fact that the pressure showed normal on OVMS even with a completely flat tire.

 

[markwj]

Thanks for your response. What you say makes sense, but it was not gray for me. See photos in post #36. That is how it looked even today before repair with info on all 4 tires looking the same, 21 days after the error message started. The clue that it was false was that the numbers for the rear tires did not change at all over those 21 days and the fact that the pressure showed normal on OVMS even with a completely flat tire.

Strange. That means the TPMS module was reporting values for all the sensors, but the rear ones were 'stuck'. I guess it is possible, but would have thought the TPMS module would deal with that case. Normally in the case of a bad antenna, both associated wheel values go gray / disappear.

 

[scotty2541]

Sabotage is a deliberate act. That would mean someone specific, a chain of command, instructing this to happen, and suppressing the real cause. Perhaps modifying software to randomly cause the failure?

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that.

Occam's Razor would suggest that it is far more likely that they have a software bug in a module sourced from a supplier 7+ years ago, and that all the original engineers have moved on. I doubt they have anybody looking at this, or anybody high up in HQ is even aware of the issue. The front-line staff (service centres) have no idea of the issue, and can only do what they always do - the antenna is not working, so suggest to replace it.

If we want to get this fixed, the best approach is to write it all up (scotty2541 has the corruption data examples from antennas, in various places in this forum), and send it in. I doubt that Tesla can/will prioritise this, but at the moment they don't even know the issue exists.

Mark, They know it exists. I send an email to their "Northern US Service VP" or some such title...
I complained about the generally inferior parts, the TPMS failures, the poor service when I call, and that even the parts department doesn't answer the phone.

I got a reply saying "we're very sorry, and working to improve our Dallas service center... Blah, Blah"

In other words, he (and the others who also replied to the forwarded email) ignored the entire complaint about the TPMS.

Next, I'm going to write a serious letter.

They constantly market to me to buy a $30,000 battery to take my car from twice the range I will ever need to four times the range I will even need. I'm not dumb enough to purchase that on a whim.
But they won't consider upgrading the inferior parts. (I offered to locate a more reliable, higher quality, cabin blower motor, because these fail so often... they reply was "no thanks, we won't use any other part" )

Yes, I doubt it's intentional... but making the accusation means they would have to respond to it. And admit there is a quality problem.

 

[scotty2541]

Mark, et al.

If they can replace the TPMS units in early Model S cars with a more reliable, why not the Roadster? I assume the CAN bus messages are the same between the older units. And the LIN bus wires for the antennas are probably the same to (or we can splice them to match).

What would stop us from just dropping in a new unit, assuming we could get one? I have to take my dash apart anyway, the rattle is back.

-Scott

 

[dhrivnak]

Mark, et al.

If they can replace the TPMS units in early Model S cars with a more reliable, why not the Roadster? I assume the CAN bus messages are the same between the older units. And the LIN bus wires for the antennas are probably the same to (or we can splice them to match).

What would stop us from just dropping in a new unit, assuming we could get one? I have to take my dash apart anyway, the rattle is back.

-Scott

And they know how to do this as the 1.5 TPMS is quite solid.

 

[snd92]

The cost of 4 Baolong sensors was NOK 5655.50,- (700 USD) incl. tax and labour in Norway. Good to know that we get 5 years "warranty" by law in Norway, called reklamasjonsrett, on any new parts that are ment to last more than 2 years. If it breaks within 5 years, the replacement part will get 5 new years of warranty. Summarized, this is an one time cost and not too bad.

 

[markwj]

Mark, et al.

If they can replace the TPMS units in early Model S cars with a more reliable, why not the Roadster? I assume the CAN bus messages are the same between the older units. And the LIN bus wires for the antennas are probably the same to (or we can splice them to match).

What would stop us from just dropping in a new unit, assuming we could get one? I have to take my dash apart anyway, the rattle is back.

-Scott

They certainly CAN do it. It would take sourcing a new unit, and then the hardware and firmware changes to support it.

But, I just doubt if they will for a few hundred cars. Total possible market for a TPMS upgrade is 2,000 2.x roadsters.

 

[jammi]

Hi, I resurrected the topic on the Model S side with a new summary and plan, since this affects me directly and I'm fed up with TPMS issues, so thanks to @scotty2541 base research it should be downright straight-forward to implement a TMPS-faker device now. Of course the best solution would be for Tesla themselves to support the Baolong info in the dashboard like they do on the Continental stuff, as well as accept requests of disabling the TPMS system for people without legislation requiring TPMS to be present.