The «Full» in Full Self-Driving Capability

[verygreen]

In 22 months, the car will technically be able to drive itself from point A to point B without driver intervention

It can already do that. It's called summon and A and B must be like 22' apart or some such.

Isn't that what EAP is good at?

no EAP is not good at traffic jams, it's too slow to start when the car in front moves creating endless frustration for you and people around you and a lot of cut ins that spook the car. Also you still need to watch it like a hawk so it does not cross into an intersection or red or yellow or because the other end of it is blocked so you'd end up stopping in the middle as just a few annoying examples.

 

[iTech]

Let's get to the bottom of this. Gloves off.

As of this writing, Tesla calls their $ 5,000 / $ 7,000 safety and convenience option «Full Self-Driving Capability».

Not «Self-Driving Features».
Not «Self-Driving».
But «Full Self-Driving Capability».

The only guidance Tesla gives us on what FSD actually means, are these bullet points:
... and this explicit disclaimer:


Honestly my friend, what do you think you're buying when adding this option?
What do you honestly expect from Tesla, based on these words and sentences?

Imagine you weren't a permabull fanboy enthusiast hippy, or a short/fuddster salivating for banwupsy. Imagine yourself as regular consumer. An average Joe who didn't own stocks, who wasn't a TMC member and couldn't care less about «Elon-time», past broken promises or SpaceX. Imagine you were your friend, or your parent(s), considering turning in your old Ford/Honda/Nissan or Benz, and looking for a new car. Even better, imagine you were to explain to your friend/parents what their actually paying thousands of dollars for.

You're all looking at this option; Full Self-Driving Capability. What does it mean? What would you feel if you checked this option today, and got your car tomorrow with the current features and capabilities? What exactly, and when exactly, would you feel satisfied Tesla delivered what you paid for?

I'm no moderator, but please, let's keep personal attacks inside.

Calling @BigD0g, @mongo, @verygreen, @BinaryField, @strangecosmos, @Bladerskb, @electronblue, @diplomat33, @rnortman, @wk057, @OPRCE, @Soda Popinski, @boonedocks, @Electroman, @AnxietyRanger and everyone else I forgot and enjoy reading the opinions from!

The average person probably takes "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving" at face value and then has to have it explained to them during the sales and/or delivery process that it's a misnomer for the currently available features.

 

[Dario_75D]

Especially if Tesla is moving to the online-only sales I think the site has to be super-clear about what FSD means. The salesperson warning the buyer about the current state of development, the regulatory and the teething issues is NOT going to be there.

 

[mongo]

Especially if Tesla is moving to the online-only sales I think the site has to be super-clear about what FSD means.

Good idea in general, especially as Tesla expands to the general public worldwide.

The salesperson warning the buyer about the current state of development, the regulatory and the teething issues is NOT going to be there.

It sound like the opposite has been true in some cases with sales people overselling the capability/ timing.

 

[Dario_75D]

Good idea in general, especially as Tesla expands to the general public worldwide.



It sound like the opposite has been true in some cases with sales people overselling the capability/ timing.

Maybe, not in my case. I was keen in buying FSD back in 2016, the salesperson told me (to my surprise) that it was a very bad idea. I'm still thanking him... but I'll definitely buy it now as the price (2k) is very much worth it, IMHO.

 

[wcorey]

It's tired of giving me the wrong speed limit.

It is giving you the speed limit that section of road was geocoded with.

 

[wcorey]

t can already do that. It's called summon and A and B must be like 22' apart or some such.

Clearly this thread is full of shorts and trolls that I even question their ownership of a tesla. If you do have one maybe you should sell it for whatever it can draw. This thread has become nonsensical.

 

[croman]

Tesla's promise of 'full-self-driving' angers autonomous vehicle experts - CNN

"Some agency needs to throw the book at Tesla," said Raj Rajkumar

Michael Fleming, who has worked on self-driving vehicles for 12 years and is CEO of the self-driving technology company Torc Robotics, views Tesla's current products not as self-driving technologies, but driver-assist systems.
"Fully self-driving makes for a great headline, but there are a lot of additional questions autonomous vehicle providers need to disclose in order to properly educate the customer," he said.

Dean Pomerleau, of Carnegie Mellon University, who in 1995 drove a minivan that steered itself across the country, told CNN Business he has "grave concerns" about Tesla's practices on autonomous driving.

"Claiming its vehicles will soon be 'feature complete' for full self-driving is one more step in the unconscionable practices that Tesla is already engaged in with Autopilot — overselling its capabilities and reliability when marketing its vehicles and then blaming the driver for not reading the manual and paying constant attention when the technology inevitably fails," Pomerleau said.

Lets not forget how the Woz was shaded out as well. And I didn't even mention @Bladerskb -- that's another dude who really thinks Elon oversold (I think?) FSD.

Tesla is in trouble. I'm reaching out to my state's attorney general. This has gone far enough. Their revision of what FSD constitutes is textbook consumer fraud (I have the before and after). They sold one thing (driverless even capable of ride-sharing) and now intend to deliver something materially different (its not more than L3). It handles some more stuff than AP1 but not really much. And as @daktari and @boonedocks and countless others indicate -- they were misled by Tesla's HW2 marketing and purchased FSD based on known lies (i.e. the video was not a demonstration of actual production intended software nor was the only remaining step validation and regulatory approval). We know the hardware used in the video was definitely NOT HW2 and the software is also not Tesla software. So Tesla's statements were misleading (intent is irrelevant in most state consumer fraud laws). So they broke the law. Sure people won't hold them accountable but I think some will and the case is so easy because Tesla really cocked this up from start to muddled present.

 

[lunitiks]

And I didn't even mention @Bladerskb -- that's another dude who really thinks Elon oversold (I think?) FSD.

He does NOT. How do you even dare to THINK such a thing!

Seriously though I was waiting for your opinion @croman, thanks

 

[sandpiper]

Well... a bunch of us saw this coming. If you're a technical person, and you drive the existing cars it's wildly obvious that Tesla didn't have a chance to achieve L4 or L5 any time in the next long while. I personally think it will still be decades before we see L4 or L5 from anybody.

 

[BigD0g]

Clearly this thread is full of shorts and trolls that I even question their ownership of a tesla. If you do have one maybe you should sell it for whatever it can draw. This thread has become nonsensical.

Umm, I suggest you take you ball and go home, @verygreen has had a Tesla for far longer that you've even been dreaming of a m3 and has given us some of the deepest insights ever about the inner workings of Tesla software.

 

[timewasted]

Tesla is in trouble. I'm reaching out to my state's attorney general. This has gone far enough. Their revision of what FSD constitutes is textbook consumer fraud (I have the before and after). They sold one thing (driverless even capable of ride-sharing) and now intend to deliver something materially different (its not more than L3). It handles some more stuff than AP1 but not really much. And as @daktari and @boonedocks and countless others indicate -- they were misled by Tesla's HW2 marketing and purchased FSD based on known lies (i.e. the video was not a demonstration of actual production intended software nor was the only remaining step validation and regulatory approval). We know the hardware used in the video was definitely NOT HW2 and the software is also not Tesla software. So Tesla's statements were misleading (intent is irrelevant in most state consumer fraud laws). So they broke the law. Sure people won't hold them accountable but I think some will and the case is so easy because Tesla really cocked this up from start to muddled present.

I would be interested in reading a draft of your communications with your attorney general.

 

[croman]

I would be interested in reading a draft of your communications with your attorney general.

I'll post it here when it's drafted. I'm really busy right now but I have a 3 year statute of limitations on my Illinois consumer fraud claims. That will expire soon. I'm not sure I want to sue Tesla but they sure aren't making me less inclined. The AG can do the heavy lifting for me while I weigh my options.

 

[Deraillor]

The only reason I question driving across country by itself is I've heard nothing about robotic superchargers that will mechanically put the cable into your car by itself. Aside from that I suspect that could happen now. You'd need a driver to pass regulatory PIC role but mostly 'pump the gas'. Remember Google had a Prius drive by itself from Mountain View CA to Reno, NV in the early 2000s.

Fringe possibility, but MAYBE when V3 supercharger gets unveiled this week, it’ll have a robotic arm? Yeah, probably not.

 

[Thomas Edison]

I’ve been looking around for the last 3 days and can’t find an asnswer, thought this would be the right place to ask:

If I buy FSD can Tesla put a cap on the features (below full level 4/5)? Then come out with a new system (with additional hardware) and attach future features/capabilities to the new system and I’d have to pay for another upgrade to get them? Or does FSD guarantee me eventual level 4/5 if I own this car long enough for then to be available?

 

[BinaryField]

I’ve been looking around for the last 3 days and can’t find an asnswer, thought this would be the right place to ask:

If I buy FSD can Tesla put a cap on the features (below full level 4/5)? Then come out with a new system (with additional hardware) and attach future features/capabilities to the new system and I’d have to pay for another upgrade to get them? Or does FSD guarantee me eventual level 4/5 if I own this car long enough for then to be available?

Try taking a look through the responses to this thread. Seems that the technically-oriented people think that the new wording is so slick that it guarantees you nothing.

 

[Thomas Edison]

Try taking a look through the responses to this thread. Seems that the technically-oriented people think that the new wording is so slick that it guarantees you nothing.

I tried, but I’ve been reading so much in the last 24 hours that my comprehension has turned to slush. Thanks for the answer I was looking for though.

 

[mongo]

I’ve been looking around for the last 3 days and can’t find an asnswer, thought this would be the right place to ask:

If I buy FSD can Tesla put a cap on the features (below full level 4/5)? Then come out with a new system (with additional hardware) and attach future features/capabilities to the new system and I’d have to pay for another upgrade to get them? Or does FSD guarantee me eventual level 4/5 if I own this car long enough for then to be available?

I'm a technically oriented person who thinks (hopes? dreams?) FSD is the only option you'll need to buy.

 

[BinaryField]

I tried, but I’ve been reading so much in the last 24 hours that my comprehension has turned to slush. Thanks for the answer I was looking for though.

No worries. Best of luck!

I'm a technically oriented person who thinks (hopes? dreams?) FSD is the only option you'll need to buy.

Regardless of what anybody believes is in store, I think that it's still hard to argue that the wording itself anything but a big cop out.

 

[boonedocks]