The 2.9 Second Corvesla P60D

[GabrielB]

In February/March of 2009 the Tesla Team took a Smart Car, gutted the gasoline engine and drivetrain, and replaced it with the motor and modified (smaller) battery pack from a Tesla Roadster. This was the car shown to Daimler Mercedes that led to a partnership. I got to have a test ride in this car. WOW - Front wheels off the ground quick if you were not careful, but WE all know how to feather the Tesla Accelerator Pedal, now don't we?

That experience along with riding in the Silver Alpha Model S Prototype the same night confirmed for me that EV Supercars were on the way.

I put together a little PowerPoint showing how easy it is to make an EV car faster than a McLaren F1 for about 2% of the cost. Remember when Bill Gates said "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon." Well, we are starting to get there... kind of.

Loving my Model S P85 but still having fond memories of my Corvette GrandSport, I present to you the Corvesla P60D:

 

[RobStark]

If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.

4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.

5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.

6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads.

7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.

8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.

9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off.

10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.

11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.

12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.

 

[GabrielB]

GM's response to Bill Gate's statement at Comdex is a classic. Unfortunately, under further investigation, it has been reported that both items were hoaxes. Hilarious stuff regardless.

But seriously, what do you all think about a 2.9 Second Corvesla for just 2% of the cost of a McLaren F1? Looks like an easy drop and replace, and the tunnel provides room for half the batteries. And it is all aluminum on aluminum mods and welding. One problem right away though; I do not think the Tesla Air Suspension cylinders will fit (too tall).

 

[zro ltr]

GM's response to Bill Gate's statement at Comdex is a classic. Unfortunately, under further investigation, it has been reported that both items were hoaxes. Hilarious stuff regardless.

But seriously, what do you all think about a 2.9 Second Corvesla for just 2% of the cost of a McLaren F1? Looks like an easy drop and replace, and the tunnel provides room for half the batteries. And it is all aluminum on aluminum mods and welding. One problem right away though; I do not think the Tesla Air Suspension cylinders will fit (too tall).

That would be pretty incredible. I love the C7. It was basically a coin toss between that and a Model S for me.

 

[thelastdeadmouse]

Comparing to the F1 is a little unfair. They're slower and more expensive than modern super cars because they're 20 years old and this point and have appreciated in value dramatically. This is a little like comparing the car to a Bugatti, but instead of a Veyron you're comparing it to the 1936 Bugatti Type 57SC Atlantic. With a price of 40 million and a 0-60 that's probably in the 15 second range, anything today would seem like incredible value. Also, modifying vehicles in the way you describe is an incredibly expensive process.

That being said, if manufactured in volume in the realm of Porsches, Tesla could certainly make a two seater with super car acceleration at sports car prices. For the Roadster 2, whatever price bracket Tesla aims for, it will almost certainly be the quickest car in that bracket.

 

[GabrielB]

The McLaren F1 reference came from an article; "5 Supercars Slower Than The Tesla Model S P85D".
http://gas2.org/2014/10/10/5-supercars-slower-than-the-tesla-model-s-p85d/
The McLaren F1 at 3.2 sec matched the P85D, and since Elon owned/owns an F1, that was his performance target (met).

I loved my 2010 GrandSport, but sold it (now had the P85) because I knew its value would drop quick with the release of the 2014 C7.
In other Forum posts (TMC & TM) I've described my thoughts of an EV Supercar for the $$$ (not $$$$$) masses, and the "Corvesla" fits the bill rather nicely. I do not think the NextGen Roadster will be too far off this target, but I think it will have an energy storage split of 85% battery and 15% SuperCap. Adding the SuperCap in parallel with the lighter/smaller 60kWh battery selected for the Corvesla would change the 0-60 from 2.9 to 2.4 seconds. The SuperCap will add a blazing acceleration dump for a few seconds, and will allow HARD regen dump braking, that would then trickle into the battery at standard regen rates. Some Formula racing cars are already doing this in a hybrid fashion; brake hard into a turn - store in an accumulator - power out of the turn - drain accumulator - save fuel for straight aways.
The new Tesla Roadster would probably have carbon fiber panels as well, possibly an optional $$$$$ model vs. the $$$ base.
Corvesla P60D $$$ 2.9 Second Base Model.
Corvesla P60SCD $$$$$ 2.4 Second Track Model adds 15% SuperCaps and Carbon Fiber Body Panels.

So, I think something like the Corvesla with 15% SuperCaps, some carbon fiber, and some elegant European styling queues, may be the Next Gen Tesla Roadster EV Supercar.

 

[thelastdeadmouse]

The McLaren F1 reference came from an article; "5 Supercars Slower Than The Tesla Model S P85D".
http://gas2.org/2014/10/10/5-supercars-slower-than-the-tesla-model-s-p85d/
The McLaren F1 at 3.2 sec matched the P85D, and since Elon owned/owns an F1, that was his performance target (met).

I understand the reason Elon and other commenters are comparing it to the F1. The F1 is a fine target for "Is this car supercar fast?" because of Elon's backstory, and the fact that 3.2 seconds is still very much the realm of supercars. I'm just saying the F1 is a poor target for "Is this good value?" since that car's value is now based on the fact that it's a collector's item and has appreciated about 10 fold. A much more fair comparison in terms of bang for the buck would be something that can be purchased new with similar acceleration like the new Z06, the 911 Turbo S, or a Nissan GTR.

 

[rolosrevenge]

If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.

4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.

5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.

6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads.

7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.

8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.

9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off.

10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.

11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.

12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.

This made my day

 

[wallet.dat]

Without taking anything away from the C7 Corvette (especially the Z06 with it's nigh 1.2G of lateral grip!!), I'd much rather see a performance coupe built from the ground up as a BEV.

 

[BlueTan85]

Isn't the McLaren F1 a $1 million car? Or is it "$10 million" as shown in the image?

 

[swaltner]

Isn't the McLaren F1 a $1 million car? Or is it "$10 million" as shown in the image?

They originally sold for 1 to 1.2 Million USD. With only 106 being made, they fetch close to 10 Million USD when they show up on the auction block. Both numbers are correct, depending upon how you look at it.

 

[BlueTan85]

Ah, interesting, ok.

 

[GabrielB]

wallet.dat,
Yes I agree with you, a new clean sheet of paper Battery Electric Supercar (BES) Roadster would be the way they will assumedly go. To envision what could be done today I just assembled some excellent parts that are available now, looks pretty straightforward to integrate, and (on the back of an envelope) easily beats the McLaren F1 and the Tesla P85D 0-60.
I imagine Tesla's BES Roadster would have an aluminum frame to be compatible with their current factory and production methods, and add carbon composite panels perhaps. To retain exclusivity (and pay for the fancy materials) the car should be priced near $200K with production of around 2.5 to 5 thousand cars per year only. I firmly believe Tesla will introduce 10-15% SuperCaps with this "P60SCD" car for kickass acceleration and HARD regen capability.

BlueTan85,
I believe you are right. Originally the original cars sold-out for about $1Mil each. But now the old F1s are seeing collector auction prices of $10Mil. That must be where the author of the article got the $10Mil figure.

 

[GabrielB]

Today Barron's and the San Jose Mercury News have announced the 2014 Consumer Reports Buyer Survey:
#1 now for two years in a row is the Tesla Model S with a score of 98 out of 100 points (99 in 2013), with the 2014 Corvette Stingray at 95 points, and the Porsche Boxster & Cayman at 91 (Porsche ave 87).

So, the "Corvesla" P60D (faster than either) should come in at 99 to 95 points. Right?

Steve Saleene's modified Tesla FourSixteen, with straight-cut gearing a bit faster and louder, may/has been eclipsed by the P85D.
Well then, if Tesla sells drive trains to Toyota and Daimler, why not sell the P85D drivetrain and controller to Saleen so he can put it into a Corvette glider? I doubt GM would sell him gliders, so he would have to buy, or customers would bring in, the C7 Vettes for conversion. The Saleen Corvesla P60D. Saleen could then convert or sell the scraped Corvette drivetrains for Corvette V-Drives for Speed Boats. Man, this is a Win-Win-Win!

 

[AustinPowers]

They originally sold for 1 to 1.2 Million USD. With only 106 being made, they fetch close to 10 Million USD when they show up on the auction block. Both numbers are correct, depending upon how you look at it.

Even better, in the UK some car tuner managed to secure himself the vanity plate "F1" for his, well, F1 obviously. Guess what he is offering said number for: 12 Million Euro!

F1 plate on sale for 10m GBP

 

[VolkerP]

I present to you the Corvesla P60D:

2.9 sec, $180k in Parts
Some cutting, Assembly, and Welding Required.

You're a Genius. You did what Mate Rimac tried to do for less than a third. Well at least in Powerpoint, but the idea is so straight forward, shouldn't be too hard to make it real. :tongue:

 

[CliffG]

...Well then, if Tesla sells drive trains to Toyota and Daimler, why not sell the P85D drivetrain and controller to Saleen so he can put it into a Corvette glider?..

ummm... because he might not be able to afford to buy it? (or, for another perspective...) ouch.

 

[GabrielB]

I met Steve Saleen at the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance when he unveiled the Saleen Tesla FourSixteen. A real nice guy, and I thought the car inside and out was beautifully done.
I am sorry to hear he may be in a bind, and I hope he, his team, and his cars pull through.