The 85 does not make sense with the release of the 70D

[Alexander]

Just from a production stand point, I don't see the regular 85 being something that Tesla would want to keep producing. If the 70's are mandatory Dual Motors then I see the 85's becoming mandatory D's too.

 

[Kbsilver]

As a new S85D owner, I can certainly add a little here, though, if you read this thread carefully I am really not adding much new to this thread; it has been a great discussion.
I wondered and felt remorse when the 70D came out. Maybe I should have gotten it (not really a choice, I had my car).
I would have save $10k (I told myself).....

This is the dilemma for Tesla with rolling out constant improvements. Tesla most definitely has a progression plan. They are trying to walk the fence in rolling these out while at the same time not alienate recent purchasers. Thus they need to take incremental baby steps with the updates, even if they have the technical ability to do it faster. I do not fault Tesla for this, and as others have already said, if you looking for the final improvement in a Tesla, you will never buy one.

 

[mknox]

Dude, you live in Montreal - YOU NEED AWD!

No you don't. I've gone through 2 1/2 brutal Canadian winters in the Toronto area, including driving out to a rural property in snowstorms with no problems whatsoever. What you DO need are good winter tires. AWD won't get you through snow deep enough to reach the floor pan and they'll do nothing to help you stop.

 

[thegruf]

For front engined ICE:

AWD/Winters > RWD/Winters > AWD > FWD > RWD

for Model S?

AWD/Winters > RWD/Winters > AWD > RWD

And if you are in the UK (most parts anyway) snow is so infrequent that winter tyres are hardly ever used, hence the ensuing chaos if two snowflakes land on the same day.
Even AWD is often pointless as the roads a blocked by the ill prepared, but it is a laugh if you get the occasional chance.

 

[napabill]

I imagine the S85 will stay put simply due to extra frunk space.

Exactly!

 

[ChriZ]

I think people are overlooking the power difference. 70D is almost 1 sec slower than the 85D for the 0-60. Remember when people paid 15k more for P85 over the 85? That was just for more power and no additional range! 10k for an additional 15kwh and 1sec faster is worth 10k in my opinion.

 

[Brass Guy]

I think people are overlooking the power difference. 70D is almost 1 sec slower than the 85D for the 0-60. Remember when people paid 15k more for P85 over the 85? That was just for more power and no additional range! 10k for an additional 15kwh and 1sec faster is worth 10k in my opinion.

The 85D over the 70D is probably similar to the P85 over the 85, plus a 30 mile range boost.
The 85 compared to the 70D however, gains front trunk space and 25 miles while losing AWD and .2 in the 0-60 for $5k. That seems like a low value/cost to me.
Now, for the next $5k that used to get you .2 secs and AWD you get 1 sec and AWD.

While I love my front trunk and use it often for instruments that won't fit in front of a D, I don't think it's worth $5k and don't expect many 85 orders with the current pricing.

 

[aus]

Tesla will likely want to simplify production and going dual motor only may let them build the S and t X on the same production line. It also figures the Model X will need a larger battery pack given it's larger size and higher weight; I'm guessing that battery pack will also fit the Model S.

.

 

[Canuck]

Even the 85D only offers 30 miles more range and a bit more acceleration for $10K more, not a terrific value.... Thoughts?

Here's a thought. We know from the research that the lower state of charge that you keep a lithium battery, the lower it will degrade. In fact, if you keep it at a low state of charge, and low temperature, it will degrade very little, even after many years. Plus, we know that higher cycles of charge are bad for degradation. With a 60 you needed to keep it charged higher, and cycle it more, unless you're not doing a lot of driving. So the 70 makes more more sense when it comes to years down the road and that may be one of the reasons that the 60 is gone for good. Tesla may be thinking long term and not wanting a bunch of low range cars out there after accounting for battery degradation. Upping it just a bit perhaps does wonders for preventing degradation, after looking at the research much of which is relatively new. So when comparing a 70 to an 85, the 85 allows for a lower state of charge, and less cycling, making it a better choice in the long term, especially if you plan to keep your car for many years.

 

[Mr X]

Considering a used 85 costs way less than a new 70D, i don't see how it doesn't make sense lol

 

[0Q991]

Considering a used 85 costs way less than a new 70D, i don't see how it doesn't make sense lol

I think it might also depend on if it's a used 85 that pre dates autopilot hardware and various convenience features. If those differences don't matter to the specific buyer, then it's a great option.

Another thing to to keep in mind is flurry of build quality improvements that have been noted versus earlier 85 cars.

 

[davidc18]

We have an 85D on order after going back and forth between it and the 70D.

 

[chriSharek]

Davidc18, what finally made you decide on the 85D over the 70D? Did you go with less options or just gulp down the additional $10k?

I'm in the same boat so would appreciate your insight.

 

[brucet999]

So the 70 makes more more sense when it comes to years down the road and that may be one of the reasons that the 60 is gone for good. Tesla may be thinking long term and not wanting a bunch of low range cars out there after accounting for battery degradation. Upping it just a bit perhaps does wonders for preventing degradation, after looking at the research much of which is relatively new. So when comparing a 70 to an 85, the 85 allows for a lower state of charge, and less cycling, making it a better choice in the long term, especially if you plan to keep your car for many years.

Two factors missing from your battery life analysis tend to lessen the difference that you predict:
1. 70D EPA tested at 244mi range, but Tesla calls it 240, so the true EPA range difference vs an 85 is only 21mi instead of 25.
2. 70D scored 33Wh/100 mi vs 38Wh/100 mi for 85. This translates to a lesser discharge rate putting 14% less stress on the battery.

 

[Max*]

I was also struggling between the 70D and the 85D (similarly equipped) and if the $10k was worth it [for me].

I looked at the range question from a different perspective:
-$10k difference is about $100-$150 per month payment difference
-The only time I'd need the additional range is for road trips (my daily commute is manageable in either car).
-We do at most 1 "road trip" per month, usually once every 2 months. If it comes down to range, it'd be cheaper to pay for gas in my wife's SUV than to pay an extra $100-$150 every month.

 

[pmoa]

I was also struggling between the 70D and the 85D (similarly equipped) and if the $10k was worth it [for me].

I looked at the range question from a different perspective:
-$10k difference is about $100-$150 per month payment difference
-The only time I'd need the additional range is for road trips (my daily commute is manageable in either car).
-We do at most 1 "road trip" per month, usually once every 2 months. If it comes down to range, it'd be cheaper to pay for gas in my wife's SUV than to pay an extra $100-$150 every month.

Good way to look at it. I like this perspective.

 

[Cyclone]

Good way to look at it. I like this perspective.

Yes. And alternatively, even if they have to use a "for pay" charger in the 70D on those trips, they will come out ahead than paying $100-$150 per month. When off the Supercharger grid, there very well could be ChargePoint, Blink, or other public J1772/ChaDeMo chargers in addition to RV park hookups.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Two factors missing from your battery life analysis tend to lessen the difference that you predict:
1. 70D EPA tested at 244mi range, but Tesla calls it 240, so the true EPA range difference vs an 85 is only 21mi instead of 25.....

Tesla newsletter e-mail I just got for the 70D says "0-60 time of 5.2 seconds and a 250 mile range at 65 mph"

15 mi difference

 

[brucet999]

Tesla newsletter e-mail I just got for the 70D says "0-60 time of 5.2 seconds and a 250 mile range at 65 mph"

15 mi difference

That is not EPA range. Tesla claims 285 mi range for 85 at 65 mph.

 

[davidc18]

Davidc18, what finally made you decide on the 85D over the 70D? Did you go with less options or just gulp down the additional $10k?

I'm in the same boat so would appreciate your insight.

The increase in performance. I drove both several times and then just decided that having a bit more performance was worth the price delta. At this price point I didn't want to have regrets. I went with the pano roof, red paint, and upgraded sound.