I agree as well. There is a danger in it trying to be smarter than the data it actually has to go off of.
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The AP Lane Keeping Bias to the Right is Not Safe, please fix this Elon!
- Thread starter Todd Burch
- Start date
I agree as well. There is a danger in it trying to be smarter than the data it actually has to go off of.
Soolim
Member
Because driver is still responsible (not autonomous yet), the AS should not fight the driver, driver should take over naturally/instinctively.
mobe
Member
My car seems to do fine unless I am in the left lane and approaching a truck in the right lane. In that situation it actually seems to right bias TOWARDS the left rear corner of the truck. I think that the front ultrasonic sensors need to have their range extended so that they can detect the trucks prior to coming along side them. As it now stands the front sensor is useless in this situation unless the car is nearly over the right line in which case I can see it fire. The ultrasonic sensors don't fire until the rear of the car is even with the rear wheels of the truck. At that point it is too late.
dweeks
Member
I don't want to have to try to grab for a button or stalk to disengage the AP if it goes berserk and I need to override. I want to be able to resume manual steering by turning the wheel.
You guys realize you are completely at the mercy of the computer right? A random bug even when AP is not enabled could send the steering veering off to the side with your inputs meaning _nothing_. Hell even a double fault in the steering rack could do the same.
Now reconsider what I have suggested. You would not be fighting it, it would gently let you know you're not going where it wants to go. No worse than driving any car that needs an alignment straight.
Soolim
Member
Soolim
Member
Try explaining it in layman's term.
For example, if I have AS on, but I see that it is going to drive into an open manhole, what would the car do? What should I do instinctively?
So the car without any fancy stuff, with a proper alignment on a flat road always aims for center, right? If you let go of the wheel while off-center, it's turns back to center on it's own. Is it hard to take control and steer it while the car is driving straight? Do you have to exert a lot of pressure? No, thanks to power steering.
So AP when engaged should always aim for center of lane with an equivalent feedback force to the driver. A driver input while AP is engaged should take very little, if any additional effort over normal steering. A little feedback would give you the same thing as "road feel", but in this case "AP feel".
To answer your question: If you see the car heading into a manhole you do the same thing you would do if no AP existed. It is no harder.
Soolim
Member
I am not nitpicking but just want to get full understanding.
1. With proper alignment, the car does not know how to aim for the center, it aims straight (due to wheel caster) whether center of the lane/road or not, assuming road camber is not a factor. Yes, it takes little or no effort to maintain straight run, power steering or not. If by center, you mean the steering wheel is driving straight, then we have agreement.
2. AS aiming for the center of the lane depends on the camera for lane marking. However, as some of us (including me) observed, the car ping-pongs. The reason it ping-pong is irrelevant to this discussion. I can feel the AS doing the ping-pong by the feedback on the wheel, and that is also how my hand resisting the ping-pong tells the AS my hand is on wheel, by torque sensing, up to the extend I tolerate the ping-pong. I can overcome the AS any time by applying higher torque than what AS has been programmed for hand on wheel detection.
3. If the open manhole happens to be on the path of the wheel. The AS maintaining direction will drive over it, resulting in possible damage to the tire/wheel.
4. If the open manhole is coming up very quickly, and I want to take over the steering, I apply manual steering to avoid the manhole with enough torque and AS give up control so as not to resist my emergency maneuver. My emergency maneuver might include crossing the lane (if safe to do so by my judgement) which is contrary to what AS might do if still engaged.
Based on 3 and 4, the current implementation of AS to disengage is what I want.
Tedkidd
Member
My aunt and uncle would both comment on how centered the car is, and they would prefer a right of center bias.
Please let me know how you turn this on so I can share with them??
Seriously, how cool if it could learn potholes and plan to avoid them.
Please let me know how you turn this on so I can share with them??
Seriously, how cool if it could learn potholes and plan to avoid them.
Yes, and AP should simply redefine "center".
More allowance is allowed before AP disengages now, yes. With 7.0 AP would simple disengage, regardless of ping-pong. Take that change and go another lightyear with it.
Again missed the point. Avoiding the manhole cover while AP is aiming for it should be NO DIFFERENT than avoiding a manhole cover if driving straight and on-center in normal mode. AP should merely redefine the center return position. You let go of the wheel, it should return to AP's path-defined center instead of a mechanically defined center via caster. You should never fight AP, unlike you do now.
I'm wondering right now why I'm re-engineering Tesla's solution to work *RIGHT* and *ELEGANTLY*, these are supposed to be the smart engineers.
Soolim
Member
Does any other ADAS equipped car (e.g. MB or BMW) do it your RIGHT and ELEGANT way?
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I think the only difference in the manhole cover situation between what AWDtsla is suggesting and the current implementation of Auto-Steer is that under AWDtsla's implementation, after taking evasive measures by steering the car away from the manhole cover, if the driver released the steering wheel, the car would continue driving, centered in the lane, with Auto-Steer engaged. Soolim would prefer the current implementation in which the steering maneuver disengages Auto-Steer.
I'm not taking sides. I'm just trying to distill this down.
I'm not taking sides. I'm just trying to distill this down.
Soolim
Member
Would be nice to know. Do you know if any other ADAS equipped car can do what AWDtsla envisioned?
I know this is an older pic, but I really want to see this data in my car with AP enabled. Any chance us "regular people" would have a non-warranty voiding way to see this? I think it would be fascinating.
It actually seems to make some pretty complex decisions on this already. Note the image I posted in my hacking thread:
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